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Lord of the rings tabletop fading away?
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Author:  Coldwraith [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Lord of the rings tabletop fading away?
Hey there,
i have been thinking about getting into the hobby again (stopped somewhere around 2005 and focused my energy on World of Warcraft :oops: ) and started to read some stuff on the internet. What i read on tabletop forums or warhammer forums is pretty discouraging.

for example: "the lotr bubble burst and it failed" or "nobody plays it anymore cause nobody cares what aragorn or frodo are up to any more as the movies are over and done with. simple as that" or "As for LotR ever since the movies have finished, i've not actually seen anyone play them at all" or "gw had to raise prices because the lotr system failed" or "they should stick to warhammer again and not to lotr because it doesnt have enough players to be a core system anymore"

is it really that bad and has the lotr system failed or are those guys just talking bullsh*t?

PS: i hope this is the right subforum for this(i think its kind of a rumour).
and sorry if im taking this to serious :oops:
Author:  Drumstick [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  The hobby
Well i think it is true kinda that the Lord Of The Rings tabletop game are fading in areas and since the films stopped that didn't help either.. I hear the hobbits coming out soon which i hope might boost some players but there's no guarantee. I first watch LOTR when it came out.. was still small and never liked it for i was scared of the Ring-wraiths.. ( yeah i know pretty sad ) A year or two later a re-watched it and enjoyed it so much more.. I was then desperate to watch the following one etc.. I only found the hobby by chance by falling upon the 'White Dwarf' magazines in an airport.. didn't enjoy the futuristic 40k stuff but found the LOTR things incredibly interesting.. ( even tho it was in french, for i got it on holiday ) anyway I'm rambling off topic.. I just hope the hobby survives aswell, but there are plenty of miniature making companies that I'm sure would do something.. but these are only my opinions.

P.S. Whenever I am lacking inspiration or bored of the topic i just watch all 3 films in a oner.. Also i just recently found 'The Hunt For Gollum' which is defiantly due at watch! Here's the link - http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/updates.htm

Thank you
Drumtastic
Author:  7Thunders [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
well,since you want to get back into it,I guess that means that "YOU" still care,Right?

Not to sound smart,But Why should "You" or any one else on this board care or even worry about the status of this game Based on what several actors are doing with their lives right now.

In all honesty,I have found out that you get out of this game whatever you put into it. So by all means Come back to the fold :D

Games workshop has done well with this game. However Games workshop is going to do whatever they want. The reasoning for their business practices are known only to them,and you have to ask yourself,

Just what can I do to control that? the answer is nothing.

Do like I do, I play the game,collect what figures I can,and I stay away from GW politics like the plauge. I don't care what they do,or how their pricing policy or attitude towards this game will affect me.

Once you find that you let this little stuff go,you will have a more enjoyable approach to the game. 8) Besides,it will always be around in one form or another,some of these people on this very board are Die hard "Ringers" I doubt they will let it die.
Just look at mordheim.
Author:  aelfwine [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a number of things.

When the movies were out, lots of people (and I do mean "lots") were buying the figures as movie collectables. These sales brought in way more buyers than even GW seems to have expected.

GW raked in the money from LOTR. They even paid off their 10 year license in about two years.

Then in the year after the Return of the King Extended Edition came out, that market just...stopped.

What GW was left with were the more dedicated collectors, Tolkien fans and gamers. It was still a respectable market (most companies would kill for the market) but nothing compared to the pure volume before.

Since then, there's been a constant debate as to what GW is up to. If anything. The general sense is that GW has moved "upstream" - which means that they are focussed more on selling a lot of high priced things to existing customers and less on selling lower priced things to a wider number of potential customers. Sale volumes have dropped, prices have gone up and the number of new releases seems to have trailed off a bit.

While all this is going on, there's another issue floating about: Middle Earth is limited. It has a lot to explore, but eventually you hit an absolute wall of what you can portray. GW hasn't hit that wall yet, but there's a corollary - there's probably an absolute limit in what can be sold profitably from Middle Earth. Sure they haven't sold the Beornings yet, but would a Beorning release actually make them enough money to justify creating such a thing.

The good news, however, is that War of the Ring seemed to have reinvigorated things somewhat. The Strategy Battle Game is still on sale, as are all the supplements. Long time players have significant armies collected. Now they have a ruleset which, uh, invites them to collect more of these armies. I know I did :p

Finally, sometime around 2010 or 2011, the license runs out. GW might renew immediately, or it might negotiate a new license for the Hobbit movie. Or they might not renew at all. We don't know. It's usually pretty difficult to figure out what GW is up to - they tend to respond directly to market conditions rather than anything else. Sensible for a business, but a bit iffy to predict as a customer.

So, in short: don't worry about it. The minis will still be coming out for at least another two years.

Gavin
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lord of the rings tabletop fading away?
Coldwraith wrote:
is it really that bad and has the lotr system failed or are those guys just talking bullsh*t?


My take on this game is: I really don't care how popular it is. I love it (SBG that is...not WotR). It is a classic system, balanced and pretty much timeless. For the most part the models have a realistic look and feel. If they shut it down tomorrow I'd probably still be playing it years from now. I continue to collect models so that at some point I'll be able to field at least a 500 point army from any faction. I am in no way attracted to Warhammer or any of their other cartoony offerings. The only way GW will get money from me is by supporting LotR.

GW's problem with LotR has to be the expansion opportunities. With Warhammer they can do what they want, move a story along, create a feedback loop with the novels, etc. But LotR is finite. At some point gamers will have all the models and sourcebooks they need. Unless they release new stuff (like Galadhrim plastics), or new sourcebooks, like Mordor and Harad, the revenue flow will slow to a trickle. There are really only a couple more areas they have yet to cover and the universe will be full: high elves, and easterlings (which is only 1/2 done IMHO). Even the hobbit movie won't create much opportunity: men of Dale, Laketown and Rhun, a new dragon (Smaug would have all 4 upgrades, plus maybe a free point of will per turn), Beornings, a few more goblin heroes, and a few more Dwarf heroes. Hard to turn that into a massive influx in cash.

If I were GW I'd be begging daily for rights to develop the full 2nd and 3rd Age based on the books. Then I'd start releasing campaign books. There's 6000 years of history there, I'm sure that would keep them in business for a good long while. Maybe we should start a petition and send it to Christopher Tolkien :)

Anyway, unless they can do this, I expect the game may be discontinued within 5 years. But so long as they eventually release high elf cavalry, I don't really care. Meanwhile I'm going to keep collecting, maybe even grab an extra rulebook for safekeeping.
Author:  garmenhord [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
it didn't stopped me from starting the game recently :wink:
i wanted to start it some years ago when the magazines came out but i wasn't allowed to...
and now i know for sure that it's not in a hasty mood i do this , just because it's popular...
and you could always make other people interested in this stuff :) -- there are a lot of people who don't know about games like this
And even if it's dying out i still got some beautiful figures to put on my closet as decoration ;)
and i have moria so at least i can play against anyone who I invite, even tough this person doesn't play it
Author:  Jamros [ Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't feel the need to write an extensive paragraph as my thoughts mirror most everyone else's. I would like to add, however, that I've noticed LotR making fewer and fewer WD appearances.

I would like to see some campaign supplements. Does anyone remember the War of the Ring campaign from the old RotK rulebook (not the game system WotR, it was the name of a campaign)? I think it might be a good idea to revisit that. And if its legal (since it was in the films and books of LotR), a TLA campaign or supplement would be cool.
Author:  stew [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
and as long as there are people playing it near you, then you're good to go! :-D

in my area, there are about 10 players, which is really small compared to some other games, but enough that regular play is possible. so i really just try to enjoy it now.

and WoTR is pretty brand new, so i suspect that LoTR figures will be around for a bit too.

-stew
Author:  garmenhord [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
stew wrote:
and as long as there are people playing it near you, then you're good to go! :-D

in my area, there are about 10 players, which is really small compared to some other games, but enough that regular play is possible. so i really just try to enjoy it now.

and WoTR is pretty brand new, so i suspect that LoTR figures will be around for a bit too.

-stew


I hope they will be around for a bit, i just started and i still want some figures... but i guess it's best to wait till i painted my moria box...
And you are lucky to have so much players around - in my city they only play warhammer -- lotr is only painters and collectors...
Author:  Erunion [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
It is certainly not as popular as it once was, but there is still a lot of room for GW to keep the game fresh. Just off of the top of my head I can think of....

Naval warfare supplement with fleets for the various races/cultures
Re-visit the Battle Companies as a stand-alone expansion
All of the Hobbit stuff, after the new movie is released.
Author:  El Rabbito [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
If GW was serious about keeping LOTR alive it should visit some of it's own stores..it's the guys behind the counter doing GW a dis-service.
The classic example...I'll just pop in to get some riders of Rohan...nah mate, what you want is Space marines ..see everyone plays Warhammer, no one here plays LOTR, so you need some dudes with power fists and some lizardmen. After telling the guy what I really want is Riders he then goes on to tell me how lame the system is and how few mods can be done to the minis and so on.The fact that he would make a sale out of me no matter what system never seemed to cross his tiny mind.

If I worked for GW at the design or sculpting studios I'd want his head on a stick.Suffice to say I left without his advice nor his riders, I ordered them online.
Author:  Coldwraith [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks alot for the replies. they helped to clarify things for me.
the main problem is that i have no one to play with at the moment because all my pals stopped playing around the time when i quit, so i have a lot of motivating to do 8)
another issue is that the only store in my town with gw products has stopped selling them and the next gw shop/independent shop is about an hour-drive with the car away. so i guess im gonna order the next set of minis online.

Quote:
Whenever I am lacking inspiration or bored of the topic i just watch all 3 films in a oner


that sounds good, but ive tried this once with star wars when i wanted to make a star wars night with a friend but both us fell asleep somewhere during episode 2 :-D

ayway: im getting into the hobby again and im reading my big blue rulebook right now as i have forgotten a lot over the years and i have already painted some miniatures. its pretty fun again after the long break.



PS: give me some more opinions and replies on the supposed "failure" of lotr SBG the future of SBG or the gw losses or anything related. 8)
Author:  Drumstick [ Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well really if you want to keep the hobby going keep playing. I was the first in my area to play & now I've got 4 other friends playing because i began. 1 or 2 are actually registered on the site as well. My nearest Lord Of The Rings supplying shop is half an hour away but i still go there most weeks. Just get your mates over & watch a movie or two & have a quick play... that's what i do ;)
Author:  TerrorOfTheNorth [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Naval warfare supplement with fleets for the various races/cultures


If that came out we'd probably get:
    Corsairs
    Gondor/Fiefdoms
    Elves
    Some ridiculous sort of rohan, isengard, easterling or dwarf ships/sailors
Author:  aqan [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
At the moment I just paint because I don't have the time to play but I would love to play more.
And remember that if everybody just played it becaue othes do it no one will play the game.
So, I would say yes it is dying but I don't think that is a reason to don't start with this hobby. :)


Quote:
Some ridiculous sort of rohan, isengard, easterling or dwarf ships/sailors

An easterling fleet is not that far-fetched. :no:
you even have the see of rhûn.
Author:  TerrorOfTheNorth [ Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
fair point, I didn't think of that
Author:  garmenhord [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Erunion wrote:
It is certainly not as popular as it once was, but there is still a lot of room for GW to keep the game fresh. Just off of the top of my head I can think of....

Naval warfare supplement with fleets for the various races/cultures
Re-visit the Battle Companies as a stand-alone expansion
All of the Hobbit stuff, after the new movie is released.


they also could make villages with normal people that r being attacked or something :)
i would like them making miniatures of the hobbit animation, i like the design of those characters a lot : ) (maybe a collectors item)
Author:  Corvus [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you like a game, play it. I don't care if a game is popular or not to play it. But of course you need an opponent to play against.

A friend of mine is completely hooked on the old HeroQuest, he even writes his own custom rules for it. I mean: how old is that game? And it's not very popular these days either.
Author:  Coldwraith [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
nice summoning pic corvus!
their music is awesome and the fact that most of their songs are about lotr makes it even better 8)
Author:  valpas [ Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem with LotR for GW shareholders is that GW can't licence it to others. I don't know the numbers, but I would bet they make a significant portion of their income from licencing Warhammer and 40k to for example computer games companies. Actually I'm quite surprised that they don't already push more aggressively all kinds of cartoons, lunchboxes and stuff based on their "intellectual property" to market.

If GW stopped producing LotR today, I'd already have a strategic reserve of unpainted miniatures to keep me occupied for the rest of my life, and enough gaming possibilities for two and half lifetimes. At least I assume Tolkien Estate will not come to our houses to collect the minis away if GW's licence expires.

-- Pasi
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