Now we can sit in Helms Deep mowing down anybody who comes near.
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| Rohan de-nerfed http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24359 |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Rohan de-nerfed |
I haven't seen this mentioned yet wrt to the new rules: throwing weapons still have a range of 6", but throwing spears have a range of 8". I think Rohan just got a huge and welcome boost. |
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| Author: | Thecow [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Now we can sit in Helms Deep mowing down anybody who comes near.
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| Author: | WhoelsebutHaldir [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
To their infantry, and mounted royal guard. But their basic cavalry are still pretty bad, right? |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
whafrog wrote: I haven't seen this mentioned yet wrt to the new rules: throwing weapons still have a range of 6", but throwing spears have a range of 8". I think Rohan just got a huge and welcome boost. I wouldn't say a HUGE boost, but yes, definitely a welcome one. Now they can move a away at full speed and keep a healthy 7" buffer between themselves and the enemy, ensuring they won't get charged once they lose priority. |
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| Author: | Pindergorn [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
From TLA. Jobu wrote: whafrog wrote: I haven't see this mentioned yet: Rohan has been de-nerfed. Throwing weapons still have a range of 6", but throwing spears have a range of 8". Well, not really because if they move more than half they are at -1 to their to hit rolls which is a huge nerf. Rohan might have gotten a boost to the range of their spears but if they move too much they get a penalty to their To Hit roll. |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Wow, I just read that. I didn't think that there would be enough differences to read through each phase. Also, it's not over half movement, it's moving period. Meaning if an army of elves woves so much as an inch away from the enemy, they only hit on a 4+. |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Also, did anyone else notice the profile for the Great Bow? I wonder who's gonna have that. |
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| Author: | Jobu [ Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Uhmmm Bard perhaps? |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Maybe, but still, a str4 bow for him? Jeez. |
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| Author: | Sticky Fingersss [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Well... thats better than nothing. I was hoping Rohan wold get a boost for their cavalry. |
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| Author: | Constantine [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Doesn't it defy logic a bit? One would expect throwing spears being more heavy would have a shorter range than the other weapons. They may wanted to boost Rohan without making changes to cavalry. 
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| Author: | hithero [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Another rules going back to the original way :/ |
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| Author: | Pindergorn [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Constantine wrote: Doesn't it defy logic a bit? One would expect throwing spears being more heavy would have a shorter range than the other weapons. Wouldn't a spear be more aerodynamic? 
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| Author: | Zogash [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
To be honest, Throwing Spears are still a waste of points. Their efficiency was bad enough at 4+ to hit, 5-6 to wound, now with 5+ to hit in most cases (like when using it on the charge), it's even worse! The 2" additional range would have been nice without the movement penalty, with it it's just not good enough for something that costs twice as much as an infinitely more reliable and useful regular spear or a lance. The bottom line is Rohan's supposed powerhouse, its cavalry, is still severly underpowered (and overpriced) when compared to others (i.e. Serpent Riders, Cataphracts, KoMT) and pay double for a placebo of a weapon than what others pay for something actually useful. Constantine wrote: Doesn't it defy logic a bit? One would expect throwing spears being more heavy would have a shorter range than the other weapons. Actually, 'real' Throwing Spears are Javelins, which even is an olympic discipline. If balanced right, they can be thrown farther than you'd be able to reliably throw an axe or dagger. The way GW modeled them, however, makes them visually indistinguishable from the (regular non-throwing) spears carried by the WoMT, hence your impression.  Just compare the fellow in the middle of the upper row or the one in the lower left corner with any Throwing Spear-wielding Warrior of Rohan. See a noticable difference? I don't... I see absolutely no reason why WoR shouldn't be able to spear support with their Throwing Spears. |
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| Author: | aelfwine [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Also, I don't know if its movie logic (I should find out) but the Rohan spears were not javelins (which are often smaller still), but pretty much the sort of spear you'd crouch behind a shieldwall with. Heavy, sturdy with a head designed to kill people mano-a-mano. We see Rohan warriors throwing these spears in the movie. I suspect, but cannot confirm, that a good Norse or Saxon style of spear, even with the heavier head, could be thrown by a strong enough guy with a lot of training. This page implies the answer is "maybe" http://www.hurstwic.org/history/article ... _spear.htm Meanwhile, the Gondorian (movie) spears are clearly weighted as thrusting spears. They don't look terribly aerodynamic, but they'd make a mess of someone charging a phalanx style shieldwall. They are /probably/ balanced with a butt on the end, for added heft. You could probably throw the thing, but it would be a hard job. Since movie-Gondor is all about the heavy infantry, that makes sense. Put a long reinforced phalanx into the field, supported by heavy archers behind, with heavy cavalry to roll up the flanks - not a bad strategy if you have a big, well funded and excellently equipped army. Rohan doesn't have that, so more flexible weapons make sense. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
hithero wrote: Another rules going back to the original way :/ Hmm, why did they change it to 6" back whenever? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Zogash wrote: The bottom line is Rohan's supposed powerhouse, its cavalry, is still severly underpowered (and overpriced) when compared to others Well, you're right, I was just looking for something positive  With the change to throwing spears it makes them even *more* skirmishy. RoR with bows, WoR with throwing spears...it's in your best interest to never get into melee or at least postpone it as much as possible...which is certainly nothing like the books, and not even like the movie, but it might make them viable.
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| Author: | Pindergorn [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
I think Rohan should have normal spears which allow them to support, but with a special rule which allows them to also use them as throwing weapons on an ad hoc basis with a reduced effectiveness (Strength 2, range 3-6"?). This reflects the concept that, in a shieldwall fight, as the shieldwalls come together, the warriors of both sides would throw everything they had at the enemy, to cause some damage with the hope of causing a break in the opposing shieldwall that could be exploited. Rocks, axes and spears (if you had spares I guess) would be thrown at close range. It doesn't matter if the weapon isn't balanced for throwing if you're close enough. |
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| Author: | aelfwine [ Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
Have you read Bernard Cornwell's Saxon series? There's a lot of discussions of shieldwalls in those books and the descriptions ring true. Lots of descriptions of what was done, and some implications about what was accepted. (Separate from the books, the old norse seem to have thought it was jolly bad cricket to be plugging people with arrows - which I take to meant they didn't much like arrows being shot at them). Lots of descriptions about using shorter swords for stabbing over the shield, or using those axes to yank shields loose. The problem with throwing things is that someone will throw them back at you. In simple game-terms, chucking something from a moving horse makes sense, as does chucking things from a concealed position. I can see why throwing weapons would be limited to certain heroes and certain armies. But I can also see why having a bunch of people throwing low-effectiveness weapons at each other during a shield wall stand off would make bad gameplay. |
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| Author: | WhoelsebutHaldir [ Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Rohan de-nerfed |
But because the WOR move in the move phase to stay out of charge range, they will be hitting on a 5+ now and wounding on a 6 most of the time unless they are helmigas. In open conflict ide say throwing spears stay relatively the same but in a castle siege they would be fantastic! |
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