The One Ring
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uruk-hai vs rohan
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13407		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  uruk-hai vs rohan
today i officially played my first games of warhammer i had 12 rohan 4 with spear 4 with shield and 4 with bow my mate had ten uruk hai half with shield half with pikes

first game: i charged all my men at him my shooting guys didnt kill one of them he used the old shield and pike wall i killed 3 in the end and he killed all of mine

second game: split my rohan into two groups and killed one shooting my throwing spears done nothing in any game. forced hi to split his into two groups in the end i killed 5 and he killed all mine i only rolled 4 six's to wound in the 2 games no luck for me.


just wondring wat other tactics you would use and just wondering do throwing spears let u support models like normal spears?

thanks in advance
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fighting an Urukai Block is not easy but it has one obvious weakness, which is narrow formation.

You need to outflank him and take out his pike supporters. Riders of Rohan are best to do this, though they are currently expensive in terms of points and probably shall ruine your numbers superiority. But as you don't have them in this battle so you'll have to stick with what you have in your army and tweak your plans as you go.

His formation would be 5 warriors wide and you have 12 warriors. In this specific battle he has no archers, so no need to hide your archers behind shields. Put your Shields against his front rank and use shielding for better chance to win. Back them up split archers on both flanks of the shields, then split spears on the outer flank. Nothing is guaranteed against Uruk Block, but it worked for me couple of times.


Shields:
Attack front rank and use shielding for better chance.

Archers:
Shoot all the way till engagement, then flank him. Now you'll have a choice. You can flank him and keep shooting at non fighting pikes, or engage the pikes to deny second rank support. Keep them closer to shields to replace them if one falls. That second choice is why I prefer to give shields to bowmen too.

Spears:
Your main flanking force. One of them will have to joic the shields to attack Uruks front line. The rest should flank and attack pikes. They have an extra 3S throwing weapon attack (only 5+ is needed), which will come in handy against pikes.

Hope this helps and again you can't be sure everything will work perfectly against Uruks and priority may decide lots of things, but you can tweak you plan with each battle to reach the optimum strategy that fits your style.

Good luck in your next battle!! :wink:
Author:  Commander_cool [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Despite their exact same shape as regular spears, models armed with throwing spears are unable to support combats with their spear support.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, if you have a bow the shield only gives you the ability to "shield" and when doing so you cannot strike blows and wound. Shields on bowmen is by and large wasted points.
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
You are right, no wounding when shielding. But especially for good bowmen, who will fight sooner or later as they can't shoot any more after engagement I think it's a plus.

IMHO if you win - even if no blows - then it helps tying a foe warrior, not losing your warrior, and buying valuable time for your other warriors to accomplish their missions then come for help. Their mission may be not to kill, but at least when engaged they don't just die!
Author:  joris267 [ Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
a 2 handed wapon is a beter uption for models with bow imo. the shield's +1 D is lost so most if his use is.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I don't think shielding is an effective way to win games. If EVERYONE shields then no one will be killing their foes and there won't be anyone to come to their aid. Besides that, shielding will only protect you for so long before you roll snake-eyes and have that Uruk striking against you.

Also, a good player will have his bowmen shooting at pikemen and spearmen for much of the game unless they are desparately needed. Often in my experience that desparate need comes in the form of having to kill more enemy troops to break through or force Courage tests. This cannot be accomplished with a shielding tactic.
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:18 am ]
Post subject: 
ive also got 3 royal gaurd on foot 2 captains 1 on horse 1 on foot and assotred heroes such as eomer aragron etc etc. wat could i do with these as i cnt afford any horses
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
mitch_rohan wrote:
ive also got 3 royal gaurd on foot 2 captains 1 on horse 1 on foot and assotred heroes such as eomer aragron etc etc. wat could i do with these as i cnt afford any horses


So you play Rohan without cavalry?
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am sure that every battle has its own tactics, and so has every player and that what makes the exitement in battles. And I think it differs from an army to the other, so it depends on how you know your army and use it to the optimum.

Lord Hurin wrote:
I don't think shielding is an effective way to win games. If EVERYONE shields then no one will be killing their foes and there won't be anyone to come to their aid.


I totally agree with you, but let me pleed my case. It's just a tactic in the battle not the whole army even for Bowmen, and most certainly not for the whole battle long. I am just using them to set my priorities in battle.

For instance I prefer in spear/pike block case to take out the supporters first. As for the front line, I won't hesitate to go for the kill right away if I can spare the right warriors to do the job from my army. But if I don't; and killing is not my first priority, then I won't send my worriors to be just killed (I care fot them you know :D ). So keeping them busy is an obvious need in the same time and becomes a high priority. Only then shielding comes into play.

Quote:
Besides that, shielding will only protect you for so long before you roll snake-eyes and have that Uruk striking against you.


It is probable of course. But even worse is the probability to get a one-eyed snake, especially for a poor unshielded bownam against an 4S Uruk-Hai. :)
And even if you win with 1 die against 2, you'll need for a rohan bowman with 3S to roll a 6 to kill the 6D Uruk. Bad chance either ways.

I mean if he's 50% likely to be killed if he loses anyway, why not giving him a better chance to win and use him in different way (I care for the life of my warriors you see :P ). Of course you're not gonna kill your opponent (a very small chance even if you win in this specific case) but you'll have a chance to buy some time and keep him busy at least for a while.

Quote:
Also, a good player will have his bowmen shooting at pikemen and spearmen for much of the game unless they are desparately needed. Often in my experience that desparate need comes in the form of having to kill more enemy troops to break through or force Courage tests. This cannot be accomplished with a shielding tactic.


Again agreed. But for the good side shooting will be next to useless after engagement. And when they're desparately needed in case of the rest of the army is outnumbered or out powered (as in our case here) you have to be careful where to assign them, otherwise you may end up broken yourself.

Just my opinion!
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lord Hurin wrote:
mitch_rohan wrote:
ive also got 3 royal gaurd on foot 2 captains 1 on horse 1 on foot and assotred heroes such as eomer aragron etc etc. wat could i do with these as i cnt afford any horses


So you play Rohan without cavalry?


I am totally with Lord Hurin in this. Though Rohan still need some rules and options adjustment, but if you decide to play them then RoR are essential in your force and you have to live with their points cost and options for now.

As for the options you have, I don't think you can add Named Heroes at this level of points you play. If you decided to go for 500 points you may think of one Named Hero (or two cheaper ones). Even a normal Captain would suck up half of your points at this level, but you may think of adding one at the level of 300 points army. Royal guards are good options though little bit expensive and may damage your numbers.

Hope this helps a little.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, Mitch_Rohan. Are you playing a points match or is each of you just using half a box of troops? Rohirrim cost less than Uruk-hai, so for his 100 points you're getting 84. You can add a couple more Warriors to your force to even things up some.

Do you have a rulebook?
Are you playing Legions of Middle-earth, or plan on doing so?
Do you have money at your disposal to make your forces larger?
Which Heroes strike your fancy?
How large are you planning on going?
Did either of you want to add allies?

All these are questions that need to be answered before we can help you start building towards a balanced army that's fun to play with or against.
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:36 am ]
Post subject: 
its not the point cost its that i just cant afford them
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
mitch_rohan wrote:
its not the point cost its that i just cant afford them


So you're only planning on playing 100 point games? Sounds like that won't be too much fun, especially if he keeps using more points than you!

You only have 12 Warriors? What happened to the other 12 from the box?
Author:  lorderkenbrand [ Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm currently teaching my cousin how to play. He browsed through the profiles and immediately took a liking to Sauron. Being 450 points, it's quite a challenge teaching one so young using something so complex, however he loved it. Obviously that had something to do with beating me three times in a row, but Sauron is a toughie :roll:

My point is that, playing Hero matches or a minimum hero count of 3 for example, can make for a shorter, funner match. GW prices are ridiculous, Ebay is worth browsing, you will find some cracking deals for second hand models, perfect for increasing your collection and remember to try some all hero battles! :D
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:25 am ]
Post subject: 
oh ive got them its jsut we were playing small missions like out of bgime to learn the rules
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
At 100pts game level you can learn the rules to certain level, and you won't be able to manipulate your army that much. After you learn the rules you need to move to next level for better gaming and even more learning.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
MuslimRohirrim wrote:
At 100pts game level you can learn the rules to certain level, and you won't be able to manipulate your army that much. After you learn the rules you need to move to next level for better gaming and even more learning.


An excellent point. I've been caught in a pattern of 500-point games recently and despite using several different armies, I'm still finding myself growing bored. I long to use Aragorn, Imrahil, Gandalf and the like!

So mitch_rohan, do you have the rulebook or are you just using BGiMe? Those are surely outdated.
Author:  mitch_rohan [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:27 am ]
Post subject: 
okay guys i probably didint clear this up very well first of yes i do have the current edition of the rules. i was just pplaying those small skirmishes out of the bgime series but with the current rules. i was only using a small number of models to get to learn the basic rules of moving shooting combat etc. here is a list of the models i have

24 warriors of rohan
3 rohan royal gaurd on fott
a captain on foot
a mounted captain
eomer
heroes of helms deep pack from a while ago
assorted metal characters from bgime

i was planning to buy some rohan horses in the future but i am short in money as i am starting up a space marine army. sorry for replying so late as i have been quite busy
Author:  The Ironfoot [ Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:38 am ]
Post subject: 
okay that's already quite a force.

you can field your infantry troops lead by Eomer (if you don't have him mounted) and buy some RoR and use you mounted captain to lead them.

i would prefer if eomer would lead the cavalry but if you don't have him mounted...
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