Gothmog, Orc or Not?

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:41 pm

This is only for those who've read the books. I know Jackson depicts him as an Orc, but do you think that is right? Or should he be a Ringwraith, Black Numenorean, Uruk-hai, Olog-hai, Southron, Easterling, Variag or some other being? Is he even male?

I'm just interested in everyone eles' thoughts as he's my favourite character even though he's only in one line in the book.

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

Ok about Uruk-hai but the other escapes fantasy...Especially the ringwraith...
He is an orc(i don't know exactly what orc) but for sure he is male....

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

Difficult to say since there really isn't any information. My first guess would be ringwraith as they are Sauron's greatest servants and it makes sense that the 2nd in command of the leader of the ringwraiths would be one of the other wraiths. However, given their powers and abilities I could see an argument that the Nazgul would have been kept outside the "normal" chain of command. Given that, my 2nd guess would be a black numenorean since they are actually loyal to Sauron instead of foreign vassal troops or mercenaries (or dupes) like the other humans in his service. Some other monstrous creature is possible, but without evidence to support it that seems like a pointless leap to make.

Honestly, some form of orc would be my last choice. The way orcs are presented in LotR just doesn't allow them to work conceptually as a leader of a well organized, semi-professional army.

That said, PJ's take on an orc Gothmog is pretty awesome and I think fairly believable so I'm cool with it.

Erunion · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:21 am

I think the footnote to the Gothmog entry on Encyclopedia of Arda sums it up pretty well.

Click here!

General Elessar · **Posted:** Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:11 pm

ForgottenLore has put it very well, and I am in complete agreement; either a Nazgul or a Black Numenorean (simliar to the Mouth of Sauron).

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:05 pm

Thankyou all for your comments, I was of the opinion that he was either a Black Numenorean or a Nazgul, its just his name is very urukish, orcish or trollish.

General Elessar · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:13 pm

Actually, he was probably named after Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:32 pm

Yes but why would a human be named after the lord of the Balrogs?

Hilbert · **Joined:** Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:07 am **Posts:** 2088

caus ehe was to terrible to be human...
But for the Nazul option I don't think so

General Elessar · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:25 pm

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Yes but why would a human be named after the lord of the Balrogs?

I didn't suggest that, I was just saying that the name actually isn't "Orc-ish".

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:29 pm

No, but its more orcish than mannish, I think.

ForgottenLore · **Joined:** Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:47 pm **Posts:** 491

GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:

Yes but why would a human be named after the lord of the Balrogs?

Why wouldn't he be? We're talking about a race of men that began worshiping Sauron and are willing servants. Why wouldn't they choose to glorify big names from the first age? Not inconceivable that he choose the name after achieving a position of power in Sauron's armies.

Morgoths_crown · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 10:53 pm **Posts:** 161

Same reason someone would call a man who had the attributes of a bear and a wolf Beowulf. Think about it, what better name than that of a fearsome Balrog to show what type of warrior you are! Don't forget, Grond was Morgoth's hammer and also the name of the battering ram used in the siege of Gondor. Why? Because it invokes evil.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:50 pm

You've convinced me. Now I'm wondering if I should use a Black Numenorean mini to represent him.

Morgoths_crown · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 10:53 pm **Posts:** 161

Yep, perfectly reasonable to represent him as a Black Numenorean.

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:48 pm

I could do with a slight conversio though. I'd have to telly my opponant or they might think its tMoS or TDM

fracas · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:22 pm

he should be a black numenorean
but the rules for him is as an orc.
sure you can use a black numenorean model as a count as

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:24 pm

That's what I intend to do.

Ritcherd · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 6:33 pm

Can anyone quote from the book? I'm interested in where he was mentioned

General Elessar · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:41 pm

Ritcherd wrote:

Can anyone quote from the book? I'm interested in where he was mentioned

"He [the Witchking] now was destroyed; but Gothmog the Lieutenant of Morgul had flung them [the Haradrim] into the fray[.]" - the Battle of Pelennor Fields

This is the one and only time Gothmog is mentioned in the books.

Gothmog, Orc or Not?

Who is online