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Was the kingdom of Gondor imperialistic in fourth age?
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Author:  Khamûl of Dol Goldur [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Was the kingdom of Gondor imperialistic in fourth age?
After the end of the War of the Ring with the subsequent defeat of Sauron, the kingdom of Gondor together with the kingdom of Rohan worked together with the objective of defeating the easterlings (Rhûn) and southerners (Harad and Khând). Through these conflicts, Aragorn recovered areas that formerly belonged Gondor, as the area of Harondor and many other areas also.

With that, Rohan and mainly Gondor it grew and it developed plenty, being until a great potency.

Then my doubt is:

Did Gondor become an imperialistic kingdom on fourth age?

Thank you!
Author:  Dorthonion [ Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is from the Appendices of The Lord of the Rings:
Quote:
From Appendix A II: "The House of Eorl":'

"In Éomer's day in the Mark folk had peace who wished for it, and the people increased both in the dales and the plains, and their horses multiplied. In Gondor the King Elessar now ruled, and in Arnor also. In all the lands of those realms of old he ruled, save in Rohan only; for he renewed to Éomer the gift of Cirion, and Éomer took again the Oath of Eorl. Often he fulfilled it. For though Sauron had passed, the hatreds and evils he had bred had not died, and the King of the West had many enemies to subdue before the White Tree could grow in peace. And wherever King Elessar went with war King Èomer went with him; and beyond the Sea of Rhûn and on the far fields of the South the thunder of the cavalry of the Mark was heard, and the White Horse upon Green flew in many winds until Éomer grew old."


Whether that constitutes imperialism in a sophisticated modern socio-political sense depends on your point if view. I think Tolkien realised that he would never have time to flesh out the tales of the time after the War of the Ring so he had to do a kind of 'and they lived happily ever after' instead.
Author:  FirieloftheHavens [ Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Do you see Gondorian imperialism as necessarily a bad thing?

I see it as Gondor regaining Elendil's original kingdom and then making the southern and eastern kingdoms tributaries and later allies; sometimes violently, sometimes not.
I really need to know what you mean by imperialism to answer the question.
Author:  Captain Ingold [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:32 am ]
Post subject: 
If he means "Whas it an empire?" then strictly speaking, yes. It was a large collection of nations - Gondor, Arnor, Harad - under one monarch. I hope this answers your question.

Here follow the definitions of "Imperialism" and "Empire"[spoiler]
Imperialism -
:The policy of forcefully extending a nation's authority by territorial gain or by the establishment of economic and political dominance over other nations

Empire-
:A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority.
:A group of states or other territories that owe allegiance to a foreign power.
:A state ruled by an emperor.[/spoiler]
Author:  FirieloftheHavens [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Technically Gondor and Arnor became one kingdom (the Reunited Kingdom) and Harad was only tributary, apart from Umbar which was annexed by Gondor. (Sorry for being anal.)
Author:  Captain Ingold [ Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
You don't mean Tributary, that's part of a river. You mean Fiefdom, or Vassal.
Author:  FirieloftheHavens [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Actually I do mean tributary. A tributary nation is one that gives tribute to and is subservient to but not part of a greater nation, like a client kingdom. A fiefdom is not the same as it is actually part of that nation. Harad was not a province of Gondor but a tributary.

See Karen Wynn Fonstad's "Atlas of Tolkien's Middle Earth" for more information relevant to the thread (and an example of my use of the word "tibutary" (as of a kingdom).
Author:  lorderkenbrand [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes
Author:  Joansean [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
lorderkenbrand wrote:
Yes


this is why we love you, Jack. :yay:
Author:  gaarew [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joansean wrote:
lorderkenbrand wrote:
Yes


this is why we love you, Jack. :yay:


Yup, you are so to the point that you don't even use full stops.
Author:  lorderkenbrand [ Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Love you guys! :oops:
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