Was Gandalf simply going to push Frodo into the Lava? He said he could not force Frodo to throw away the ring without breaking his mind. Was he going to steal the ring from him and destroy it himself at the very last? That seems chancy.

Yeah, but still, some consideration for the last move seems warranted.

If you really think about it though, what other choice did Gandalf have beyond that fool's hope? He openly admitted it was a fool's hope but he would still hope. He couldn't rally all the Free Peoples to a single banner as Sauron could easily crush it with his armies. They could not hide it for it would only prolong the inevitable. They already ruled out Bombadil as even he would eventually fall. They could not send it to the Undying Lands for it was a mortal concern and therefore to stay among the mortal realms. So really, what could Gandalf have planned differently? No one else could carry it long enough to throw it into the lava without being mastered by it(maybe Bombadil but he wasn't interested).

They actually figured Tom would be more likely to lose it than to be overcome. Anyways, Gandalf was kinda worried about Frodo being on his own when he met up with the Three Hunters in Fangorn Forest until he heard Sam had gone with him. He had to have known that Sam would help Frodo in terms of moral support which could have been enough for Frodo to destroy it. Then he must have also taken Gollum into acount. He had some gift of forsight, he said to Frodo that even the Wise cannot see all ends, implying that he had seen SOME ends in which it was a success. Beyond that, it was just a fool's hope.

He had faith in the guidance of Eru and that what was supposed to happen, would happen if the good people did their part and stayed on the path.

So it's likely Gandalf didn't have a "plan" for dealing with the One Ring, just trusted in his heart and insight and having the fortitude to put one foot in front of the other and moving all the required pieces into place. Probably why he wanted to go into Moria in the first place: he knew something important had to be done there, but only when the Balrog appeared did he finally understand that *he* needed to sacrifice himself...and he did it anyway.

So when talking about Frodo's mission to Pippin, he knew it was a fool's hope when looked at objectively, but also knew in his heart what was right. This "heart vs head" theme is pretty strong with Tolkien's works.

YOu also forgot that Pippin slayed a Troll Chief.

And what is DB?

So, something has been bothering me for a while. Just what did Gandalf expect was going to happen when and if Frodo actually made it to the Cracks of Doom? Even safe and warm, in the safety and comfort of the shire, far from Mordor and Sauron, even when he knew perfectly well that his fire in Bag End would not actually harm the ring Frodo was already unable to throw the ring into the fire. So what did Gandalf think was going to happen if everything went as well as possible and they actually made to to Orodruin?

Was Gandalf simply going to push Frodo into the Lava? He said he could not force Frodo to throw away the ring without breaking his mind. Was he going to steal the ring from him and destroy it himself at the very last? That seems chancy.

Over and above the long shot of even getting the ring to the mountain safely, I don't see any viable way he could have expected the quest to be completed. The fact that it was is essentially the most ridiculous stroke of blind luck imaginable.

Just seems like more than a little flaw int he whole operation. What do you guys think?