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DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
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Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Finally got around to watching most of the special features on the extended edition. Funny to see how Smaug would have looked like with four legs, then when the design team presented the final version to Peter, at the very last moment Peter wanted there to be a design change resulting in all the design team being stunned. Peter didn't like the four legged version because it reminded him of a puppy, having two legs would make Smaug more predatory. So the design team gave Smaug vampire bat wings with hands.

They were also going to do without the gold encrusted belly, but a fan reviewing a trailer sent Peter on a guilt trip when he mentioned "can't wait to see Smaug with his gold belly". So they added coins in.

It's nice to see the process, how it was designed, voiced and brought to life. They stated how Gollum had thousands of pixels in LOTR, Smaug had like millions and each of his scales were individually painted instead of copy paste cloning. Talk about detail to the max.
Author:  Isilduhrr [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
I like the wyvern style. Makes him look less cutesy and fairy tale, and more menacing.
Author:  Éomund [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
yeah it makes him a bit more of a character, as he now has arms.
Author:  Sithious [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
And all the Dragons of Skyrim are this style too (playing second time through that game now with the legendary edition).
Author:  Grungehog [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
It's a modern day fashion, GoT, Skyrim, the hobbit...

Personally for me as much as he looks like a good wyvern when I went to see dos I had my childhood ruined.

on the map he even has 4 legs :(

I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment
Author:  Sithious [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Grungehog wrote:
I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment


I ran out of steam to defend him with myself. I was a huge PJ fan, Meet the Feebles, Bad Taste, Dead Alive are all great, Frighteners is a classic, Lord of the Rings was awesome. Kink Kong I was kind of seeing him going too Hollywood and starting to be over the top, like way over the top, making way more than needed adventure CGI creatures was priority over a good story.
With Hobbit, I was able to forgive a few things as the groundwork was lain for a Del Toro film and well, the films do look very Del Toro influenced.

But now I know for sure that PJ is sold out and is more into CGI over the top and giving Hollywood what it wants more than the fans (like Legolas getting more screen time than Beorn and more creatures than we actually need to make a good Hobbit film).

Thus... even though he had a 4 leg Smaug in his film already, he just had to change it, most likely due to some lame guy at a meeting with MGM or some such suggested it.
Author:  Son of Fundin [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
I have the book about the design of Smaug and there are some very interesting, and for me understandable reasons why they changed it.

1) The question of where the "arms" go when he flies. It is less aerodynamic and looks a bit odd if he only has them hanging down.

2) Posture. If he had 4 legs his wings would mainly be close to his body what looks more boring. More like a dog or a cat. If he has his wings attached to his arms they are open most of the time and look impressive when he moves inside Erebor, making him look bigger and more dramatic.

I have to agree with Sithious though, it PJ uses more and more CGI and action sequences than necessary. The Uruks were perfectly fine and more realistic than for example Azog. Whenever I see Azog I see a CGI orc, whenever I see Lurtz I see an orc. The scenes in part one where the dwarves slide down into Goblin town looks for me as if it was only done because of 3D. And every Legolas shot only I only have to think that he simply doesn't belong there. He is like the super agent of middle earth now, always saving the day. Nevertheless I am really looking forward to the new Hobbit movie, it is just a great experience and another film set in Middle Earth. I will still imagine the Hobbit while reading the book as I did before and not like the film. But the film is great, great inspiration and expands my imagination. Especially regarding locations and costumes...
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Grungehog wrote:
It's a modern day fashion, GoT, Skyrim, the hobbit...

Personally for me as much as he looks like a good wyvern when I went to see dos I had my childhood ruined.

on the map he even has 4 legs :(

I think I loath PJ for that fickle moment

We'll always have the theatrical edition of AUJ, where some proper front legs are stamping on Dwarves when Smaug enters Erebor. Remember those moments, and rejoice (both for the four legs and the smashing of Dwarves).
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Well personally I hate four legged dragons and so I was pleased that, whatever the reason, Jackson changed Smaug to look this way, as this is the only way I can see him as a majestic beast, 4 legged dragons always look clumsy to me. This is probably not the right topic to express these feelings though as it seems you are all very ant-two legs.
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Sithious wrote:
Kink Kong I was kind of seeing him going too Hollywood and starting to be over the top, like way over the top, making way more than needed adventure CGI creatures was priority over a good story.

So has said Viggo Mortensen.
Sithious wrote:
Thus... even though he had a 4 leg Smaug in his film already, he just had to change it, most likely due to some lame guy at a meeting with MGM or some such suggested it.

Well he gives his reasons on the DoS EE special features as I've posted in the OP. But that is some theory you have.

@Gothmog, nope you're not alone in that preference, though I prefer the traditional four legged + wings, but none of that matters to me all that much because Smaug was such a magnificent character in the movie no matter ho many legs he had. But I understand how Jackson ruined people's childhood vision of him, and went against Tolkien's sketch. You think that PJ and all those concept artists being fans of the novel would have kept it traditional. Interesting at the end of the feature PJ had an epiphany that it doesn't matter how he looked like all to much, it's the personality and character in the end (as if saying he could have left it the way it was before.)

One thing I noticed throughout these special features is that PJ changes his mind quite often and at the very last minute too. Azog is another example of this.
Author:  orc-archer [ Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Two legged dragons have become more common in films and tv-series.

Reign of Fire
Harry Potter 5 & 7
Sucker Punch
Game of Thrones

All of the dragons above have two legs.
Author:  Sithious [ Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Sacrilege83 wrote:
Smaug was such a magnificent character in the movie no matter ho many legs he had.


Yeah, Smaug scenes were the best in the DoS film as the Gollum scenes were among the best of AuJ. I do love the character and interaction. I am not fond of the chase scene as it makes Smaug look like a dolt, but even so the entire erebor sequence was very well done. I don't mind either 2 or 4 legs on a dragon, even great wyrms with no legs are fine by me, I am a long time RPG'er. But I do have a problem with directors changing their vision after they have shown it, Like Lucas with the Star Wars films, some people hate the changes to the theatrical versions, regardless of it being better effects. The quip about a MGM meeting may not be true (MGM uses a Lion as the logo and they are 4 legged predators, puppies are predators too just domesticated), but obviously he didn't just pull it out of his but, he thought about it a while, probably talked with all the producers and executive producers several times, also had to compare both versions and alternates, and eventually made the decision before it was too late to change it.
Author:  cuchulain84 [ Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
I was hoping for a for legged dragon akin to Tolkien's drawings but after seeing the design process on ee-DoS I was definitely won over by the reasoning PJ gave. Two legged was definitely the right call.
Author:  Sticky Fingersss [ Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
I think 2 legs looks very sinister, kind of like the fellbeast. I like that they both only have 2 legs. It gives me the sense that dragon's are evolved and more intelligent cousins of the fellbeast.
Author:  Draugluin [ Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
If by evolved you mean given actual intellect by Morgoth, then yes, that is sort of their relationship to fell beasts.
I love the serpentine look of Smaug, he's still huge, but he's not bulky. When I used to picture him, I would usually see the dragon from Shrek: bulky, not very aerodynamic, very cartoony. But Smaug looks like something that could bulldoze a mountain and strike faster than a snake. His appearance is the perfect combo of brute strength and lightning speed.
Author:  Toxic [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
Looking at the artwork for the 4 legged Smaug left me disappointed. he looks more grand and imposing. Peter should have kept the 4 legs and changed the animation, if you've seen how a komodo dragon or other monitor lizards walk there's nothing puppy like about it, they have very predatory and serpent like movements. Very imposing.
Author:  Grungehog [ Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
The design I have gone for with my sculpt is that of a beast with feasible proportions 4 legs and 2 wings but the front limbs are thinner and more bony. and I think it could have worked had PJ kept to a similar design
Author:  WoundedWarsong [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS EE, why Smaug lost his legs.
The Wyvern design works better I think because it gives him a more "natural" look, PJ made the right call :) I can understand the deviation from Tolkiens original drawings of Smaug upsetting some people, but it paid off in the end.
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