Since reading the books again this year, delving deeper into the MESBG hobby and watching great lore content on Youtube I came to wonder about something:

In the world of Middle-earth, the theme that the past was better, more glorious, brighter etc is nearly everywhere. But I specifically thought about heroes and how powerful they are described.

When you read the Silmarillion you will come across sections where elves lay siege to Angband and single elves are able to challenge Melkor himself. Or mere humans (before improved humans like from Numenor were a thing) could go toe to toe with Balrogs. I believe to remember that it is even said that i took several Balrogs to hold back a single Noldor elve warrior.

In comparison when we go further in time, the last Alliance - the full blown might of the remaining elves AND Numenoreans - with legendary heroes like Elendil and Gil-Galad - barely manage to defeat Sauron (who was "just" a Maiar) and even this only with heavy casualities (the elves never again can muster a real army and both Elendil and Gil-Galad die).

So till now these accounts of heroic deeds are stories/history we come across in LOTR. Details about what our heroes do and what it actually means when its talked about how powerful they are, is only given for the time of the war for the ring.
What Gandalf or Aragorn achieved and how - like barely killing a Balrog or wrestling over the control of a Palantir with Sauron etc.
So for them, we have a feeling what their power is and what they can achieve.

And so back to the actual topic: What is it that makes Elendil more powerful than Aragorn, Fingolfin to Elrond, etc?
Because I cannot really wrap my head around the question what this means in actual terms, not just in a glorified story.

When you imagine Aragorn in front of a Balrog, it is pretty clear that you would bet on the Balrog, even with Aragorn being the Numenor strength incarnate and with Narsil.
If we imagine Glorfindel, we think about the stories we heard from him. That he died defending Gondolin against multiple Balrogs. That he died and was sent back because the Valar were so impressed by his valour and deeds. That Nazgul and even the Witchking himself simply fled from him.

So the matchup sweeps more in favor of Glorfindel. But what does it actually mean that Glorfindel is more powerful than Aragorn? Is he stronger, quicker, has better armor? Numenoreans are stronger, more intelligent and durable than ordinary men. So Glorfindel and/or 1st Age elves just excel even more in these fields?

I hope my thoughts make sense for you and I would be interested to hear what you think =)

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https://castellan-of-the-ring.blogspot.com/

Tolkien touches on some of this in his musings in the new The Nature of Middle Earth book. (Recommended, by the way!)

The elves were more tied to the world itself, but "wore down" gradually. They started off much hardier, stronger, and quicker than men, and faster to heal. If they exceeded men in those areas during the War of the Ring -- and they did! -- then how much more powerful would the Elves of the First Age be, unweakened by the passage of literal millennia?

Better armor is an interesting thought. I can't remember if it comes up explicitly in the book but it would make sense for elven armor to be better than mannish armor, though. Everything else the elves do seems to exceed the works of men, and I imagine the weapons and armor forged by Fëanor in Aman would be top flight even by Elven standards.

Those are all the story-internal reasons. External to the story, I think "there were giants on the earth in those days" was just more suited to Tolkien's personality and world view than "look how much better we are now than those losers."

I tend to be the cynic in heroic deeds done by an individual vs evil, was it really just an individual that did the deed or is it only the hero that gets written up? As they say, history is written by the victors. This may not apply to Tolkien and his writing of the history of Middle Earth but again, my cynical nature always comes out.

Asgarod - keep up these posts, they are always thought invoking.

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"Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer."

@Mapper
I kinda share you cynical view on real world "heroes" but I would say with Tolkiens writings, its a nice place to let go of it for a bit and enjoy that i can take heroes for what they are - good heroes
Thank you very much for you comment - it also feels great to have a place hear to share these thoughts of mine and hear opinions =D


@DaveT
They still are able to release new Tolkient books? =) Is his son still in charge are did someone else took over by now?
What you said makes sense. Regarding elves I also once heard the explanation that the Noldor elves were stronger because they still witnessed the light of the two trees of Valinor. So after time and with each generation, this grew weaker.

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https://castellan-of-the-ring.blogspot.com/

Christopher died last year. The new book is by Carl Hostetter, whose been involved with Tolkien's work academically now for decades.

It is interesting you ask these questions as I have a book coming out next year that takes an in-depth look at these kinds of things. I actually come to a different conclusion than most, in that I don't see a drastic decrease in military might between the ages and in fact, I see many increases of power during the third age.

@bilbobaggins764

Sounds very interesting! =) Will share infos about your book (titel, realese date, etc) here when its ready?

Would you mind explaining why you came to the different conclusion? =)

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https://castellan-of-the-ring.blogspot.com/

I certainly will let you know when we get closer to release, thanks for the interest.


To be brief, Tolkien often used hyperbole in his writings on the Elder Days. People read The Silmarillion as they would third age writings, this was not how Tolkien intended us to read it. Many readers make to much of some exaggerated statement while ignoring contrary data Tolkien gave us. In other words they are very one sided in chose only certain aspects that make these creatures such as dragons, balrogs, the valar etc seem more powerful then Tolkien intended.

They also tend to ignore that vast amount of flexibility creatures and categories of creatures attain after creation. So a maiar can become more powerful then a valar and similar types of diversity occurred often, further the differences between categories were much smaller then many assume. There are also many power increased that occurred epically in the third age that are often not recorded.

Sounds very interesting to read =)

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https://castellan-of-the-ring.blogspot.com/

I touch on many subjects but this is one of them.