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Killer elven army...or just killed?
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=20568		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Killer elven army...or just killed?
Extremes are fun, right?

Arwen w/ cloak 70pts
Stormcaller 60 pts
5 woodelves w/ bow, thrwng daggers, spear 60pts
10 elf pikes (GotGC) 120 pts.
13 High Elves w/ heavy armor, shields 130 pts
6 High Elves w/ bow and spear 60 pts

36 units, 3 might (?), 11 bows, 5 thrwing daggers, 500 points.

Low on numbers, sure...but high courage against breaking, Nature's Wrath x 2, and an Uruk-hai style def 6 shield wall w/spears and pikes....

Whoa. So...opinionate this for me.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
If you have bows, why take throwing daggers? Odds are pretty low they'd get used, and you can squeeze in another model. And if you exchanged 5 pikes for 5 WE with throwing daggers and spears, you can squeeze in one more. The pikes are great as I learned last weekend, but you don't need that many of them.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
You still only have 2 might which is not good for 500 points if you're relying on nature's wrath as you're going to have to use a lot of might to keep your opponents pinned down. It's also going to be extremely slow as you've given all your spearmen bows. Yes you do have low numbers. But considering you have two very easy to kill heroes, once you're broken, and there's a good chance the enemy will have a wraith at this points so you'll have C4 effectively. It may work but I'm not too sure. I don't think the storm caller will pay off at this points' level myself.
Author:  whafrog [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
I played a game about that points level with just Arwen once. It was nasty...for my opponent. But he didn't have a wraith.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
whafrog wrote:
I played a game about that points level with just Arwen once. It was nasty...for my opponent. But he didn't have a wraith.


You have a point but I was talking competitively wise in which I presume most armies would have a wraith or at least something with a good stock of will.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
I'm not sure about the Stormcaller. If you give a combat hero (even an Elf Captain is good in SBG 8) ) you will probably have more combat options. You often want a Hero since you can call Heroic Fight when you gang up several Elves on a single victim, then jump them all to other Fights. Just one of these in a game, timed and done well, can be a turning point. If you happen to combine it with a turn Arwen laid everyone on their tush with Nature's Wrath so much the better. Two non-combat heroes as your only ones in the force can be limiting.

Two other things I'll back up that were posted above: don't bother giving Throwing Daggers to bow-armed models. They can already shoot defensively and if you want to throw a dagger on a charge it's going to have to be in the hands of a model that is going to charge FIRST into a fight (you can't throw into a Fight when Good)...and you probably won't have your bows in that sort of a role.

Second, also as posted, cut back on the pikes. Cheap Wood Elves with spears can provide level-1 support and can shield (giving 2 dice) which is often enough to keep them alive on their own for a couple turns. And I think they are about half the price (drop 5 and get 10). When playing Isengard in SBG I usually did no more than about 1/3 pikes to 2/3 Uruks which shield.
Author:  RangerofTheNorth [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
I took High Elves to a couple of GamesDay tourneys may be cheesy but the best results I had were just taking Gil-galad and as many spearmen as possible. At most Id take 6-8 swordsmen but they werent valuable enough in the games the spearmen faired much better. A few times I took some archers but I dont like leaving things to chance. It was a tough shield wall, low on numbers but I only lost once to a take and grab scenario where the goal is to reach the marker in the center of the table and run back to your deployment zone with it. The opposition showed up with Rohan horses and ended the game in a couple turns. This was a few years ago where the best evil could field was Uruks. A much harder Elvish force that I graduated to was unarmoured wood elves kitted out in full gear, throwing daggers, spears, cloaks etc, couple of sentinels, cant remember the exact list. They take a lot of..."practice" to fine tune, dumping a few items changing the line up but once the army broke me in they were very fun and very effective, I lost more games with them but the army was so interesting to play I had more fun with them.
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
Great stuff, all: thanks. Elves do seem the tricky... but I would think that Natures Wrath doubled might be as or more effective than a single superhero. I don't understand why I would need 'might to keep the enemy pinned down'. I need more experience, obviously.
I was even playing with a Gandalf/Arwen/High Elves idea, and (on paper, anyway) Gandalf could re-charge Arwen with enough will to use 2 wills for 3 turns, nearly guarenteeing a Nature's Wrath each of three. Seems like that would thin down even Uruks. A Stormcaller + Arwen combo is cheaper than Gandalf. Looking forward to play-testing the realities.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
fritskuhntm wrote:
Great stuff, all: thanks. Elves do seem the tricky... but I would think that Natures Wrath doubled might be as or more effective than a single superhero. I don't understand why I would need 'might to keep the enemy pinned down'. I need more experience, obviously.
I was even playing with a Gandalf/Arwen/High Elves idea, and (on paper, anyway) Gandalf could re-charge Arwen with enough will to use 2 wills for 3 turns, nearly guarenteeing a Nature's Wrath each of three. Seems like that would thin down even Uruks. A Stormcaller + Arwen combo is cheaper than Gandalf. Looking forward to play-testing the realities.


You need more might to keep the enemy pinned down because you can count on that your opponent is going to call a lot of heroic moves. Also, Gandalf is a lot of points' used just to recharge arwen. It definetely won't be worth it at 500 points.
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
If Arwen can throw Nature'sWrath four rounds in a row...then the enemy spends a good part of the battle on thier butts, getting double hits...yes? Though I can see how a blocked cast plus heroic move could squash Arwen & and the tacticpretty quick.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Killer elven army...or just killed?
I would almost always have a cheap Captain or two in my forces in addition to any named Heroes. There's a point of Will in there if you need to resist, and a couple points of Might for an Heroic Move or Heroic Fight. Don't overload yourself with too many points in Heroes (everyone has a general rule but you will need to find the sweet spot for your play style and each of your armies yourself), but well used Might really, REALLY can dictate the course of a game in SBG.

Generally never burn a point of Might on modifying a die roll unless it is critical to the game (or your Hero is about to die otherwise). But if you have a fair spread of fights being set up with the charge but can put a Hero and a couple extra warriors on one vulnerable target, call Heroic Fight, kill it and then jump all those models to other near by fights it can make the round very telling. If your opponent is broken but has priority, call an Heroic Move and charge any nearby enemy heroes preventing Stand Fast and forcing them to take courage tests (I use this often against evil and it can end the game). Might lets you manipulate a game turn in dramatic ways.

What you are describing above with multiple Natures Wrath is one of those situations that may look great on paper and may be able to pull off on occasion, I would say that against an experienced SBG player you are much better off keeping a tool like Natures Wrath (or a lot of Magic for that matter) as a supporting tactic to use in key turns...probably for great effect. But if you put too many points to a couple magic using models and try to base your strategy around them I think you're going to have a lot of games where you "almost won".

Don't take this as downplaying Magic. I have used Saruman or Gandalf the Grey a lot in SBG (even at lower point levels others may say you shouldn't bother), and Elrond or Arwen casting Natures Wrath before your force charges in can help you wipe out Uruks 1:1. I even drag along a Shaman if playing evil just for the occasional turn that a well placed Transifx can make a difference. But SBG doesn't suffer from the magic overload of WotR and it is just another tool at your disposal. You can win without it, suffer if you rely too heavily on it alone, but find it makes life much easier if used in balance.
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