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 Post subject: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SBG)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:17 pm 
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I signed up on this forum a while back but never quite got around to playing the game (or buying, for that matter) as back then there was no one else playing, but now with some people to play with I'm very excited to be trying out this game.

A good friend of mine started Gondor, so in response I decided to play the Fallen Realms, mainly because I love almost all their models. I still haven't gotten around to getting the books yet so I'm running on no knowledge of the game whatsoever, so any advice on purchasing/playing/etc would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!


Last edited by Joasht on Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Is this for War of the Ring or Strategy Battle Game (WotR or SBG)?
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Oh right, I forgot they released the big version of the game. Talking about the skirmish version.
Thanks.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:01 pm 
Ringwraith
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Lots of flavours to pick from for Fallen Realms, it really depends what you're after. You can make effective armies from nearly any of them.

Easterlings: solid reliable infantry on par with Gondor; high-defence cavalry, but they don't have lances so lack a bit of punch, and no bows so they lack some flexibility; some interesting and capable heroes but not a lot of choice; can be led by Khamul the ringwraith. The latter is a bit different than most armies because you usually have to ally in a ringwraith. The book to get is Shadow in the East, plus there is a PDF on GW's site with new profiles.

Khand: cheap mercenaries; chariots, but these are way too expensive for their effectiveness; not really viable unless allied with something else. Also in the Shadow in the East book

Harad: basic infantry is cheap; good selection of cavalry choices that can hit hard (lance option, camels) or be a mobile archery platform; lots of elites to choose from, either in fighting skill (serpent guard, corsairs, mahud) and/or higher strength (mahud); Mumak, really only useable in large games; good selection of heroes. All suffer from lower defence, making them more vulnerable to bows. The book to get is the Harad book.

So do you want to play like a turtle-dragon, or a horde of carnivorous lemmings? :) Plus there is the aesthetic look of the army, maybe you have a preference.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Good choice. It's much cheaper and IMO more fun. Get the big rulebook, the Harad sourcebook and the Gondor in flames or something.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:08 pm 
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I'm not entirely certain to be honest. I like all the models quite abit, its a pity that the Khands aren't too great because frankly I would have gone for them first. Either the Harad or Easterlings are fine, are the power levels in this game balanced, or some factions clearly superior?
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Welcome! And good choice for first army. 8)

I personally believe the Harad Infantry are a great start for SBG and WotR. No matter which game system you play you’re going to want some rank-and-file troops as these are a good one. The plastic sets are affordable and the models have pretty cheap point costs so you can really add some numbers. They are nice sculpts and they use basic enough colors to paint thru them quickly and still look good. They have decent stats for their role and include Poison Weapons which is a nice bonus. Likewise with the Haradrim Raiders (mounted). Lances and Poisoned Weapons give a nice punch, affordable plastics, reasonable point costs, nice looking models. Don’t treat them like heavy cavalry or you’ll be slaughtered, but a box or two of these would serve you well in either SBG or WotR.

My love of my Haradrhim increased dramatically though when I added a Mumuk. 8) :-D Effective in either game system and very impressive to see on the table. I’m disappointed with the price increases on them over the last couple years as I would love to add a second, or maybe even third in time, so it may be something you try to keep an eye out for online. But there are very few models you will ever put on a LotR table that gives the same feeling and gets the same reaction as these guys do. :shock:

Easterlings are a great base troop as well - their high defense is wonderful and more forgiving to new players. I think the only “complaint” with them is that the way they are currently packaged makes it harder to build WotR armies the way some people wish to. Specifically there’s only 4 pikes per box and you need 8 per Company in WotR so you’re only going to get 1 Company / 2 boxes (but you get 1Company swordsman + 1 Company bowmen). Personally I think the standard troop is fine so 1:1:0.5 for troop mix per box isn’t bad. Easterlings have more of a medium cavalry and it’s a bit more expensive to collect and play than Harad’s.

As for the other “factions”, one of our local players has some nice Khand that he was using effectively as part of a larger Mordor force. I have never played with or against Corsiars so I can’t speak to them directly.

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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:35 pm 
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As whafrog said, Fallen Realms is probably one of the most diverse armies as each nation within the Fallen Realms is so different. My experience with Fallen Realms is limited to Easterlings and basic Haradrim, but here's my swift run-through.

Easterlings: Easterling Warriors are basically Warriors of Minas Tirith in nicer looking armour, save that their spearmen have the ability to use their spears as pikes. This allows them to fight in a phalanx with Defence 6 all around, unlike Isengard Pike-Uruks with Def 5. Kataphrakts have a high defence for cavalry but no lances to make the job easier or bows for harassing enemy troops.

Haradrim: Very cheap infantry at 6 points apiece, although their Def 4 and no shield option means they need those numbers. Haradrim bows can be quite lethal with their Poisoned Arrows rule which allows them to re-roll 1's on To Wound rolls. Haradrim Raiders are decent cavalry with their standard poisoned arrows and ability to take lances for hit-and-run attacks. Again Def 4 only on the Raiders and no shield option makes them vulnerable both at range and melee.

In terms of purchasing, Haradrim are an easier army to build quickly. Easterlings and Haradrim Warrior box sets are similar in price but you get 24 Haradrim vs 20 Easterlings per box. Easterling Kataphrakts and Haradrim Raiders box sets are similar in number (6 Kataphrakts vs 5 Raiders) but I believe the Kataphrakts are more expensive as they are metal models unlike the Raiders.

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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Joasht wrote:
Either the Harad or Easterlings are fine, are the power levels in this game balanced, or some factions clearly superior?


They are mostly balanced. One nice thing about this game is that through alliances you can make most any army work, even Khand. Some factions have superior profiles (eg: elves), but you pay more points for them so it tends to even out. For friendly games, it mostly comes down to the player, how well you leverage the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses of the army you've chosen.

If money is an object, starting with Harad is probably your best bet...plastic warriors, horses and corsairs let you build a pretty solid and flexible core.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:16 pm 
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Does the alliance thing mean I can play the Easterlings, Harad and Khands together if I wanted to?

Either way the Harads sound good - what are the best/better options for them? I'm completely unfamiliar with the rules so I'd need some help planning a list :)
Also, I like the Morgul Knight, Numenoreans and (by extension) Sauron model-wise. What are these guys like, can I play them in a Harad army, and how do they fare?
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Quote:
Does the alliance thing mean I can play the Easterlings, Harad and Khands together if I wanted to?


Yep. :) You'll just need to get a hero to lead each faction, but that's easily done. Whafrog's advice is sound... I would start with a Harad army (great variety, easy to build) then expand and add in Easterlings/Khandish troops as allies.

A good place to start would be getting a box of plastic Haradrim, the plastic Haradrim raiders (on horse), and a hero (you could get a basic command blister, although Suladan and the Hasharii are pretty cool as well). Serpent Riders are more expensive (metal models...), but are generally stronger cavalry than the basic raiders--either way you can't go wrong. I would also pick up the Harad Sourcebook, and the main rulebook (there are usually a few floating around on Ebay--no point in spending $60 when you don't have to). The smaller rulebook that comes with the Mines of Moria has pretty much everything the large one does... the only thing it's missing are a few profiles and some modelling/painting tips.

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I like the Morgul Knight, Numenoreans

Again, you'd have to ally these guys in. I agree--they're very cool models. Thematically you could use them as the fallen Numenoreans of Umbar. I would start with Harad and only worry about these guys once your force gets a little bit bigger though.

Hope that helps :)

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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Joasht wrote:
Does the alliance thing mean I can play the Easterlings, Harad and Khands together if I wanted to?


You could, but each ally needs a hero to lead it, which can eat into your points at lower army costs. At 500 points you can usually bring 2 together, probably need to hit 750+ to bring in three, depending on which leaders you choose.

Quote:
I'm completely unfamiliar with the rules so I'd need some help planning a list :)


Best to get the rules and start really small, like 250-300 points...a box of warriors, a box of riders and a command blister. Play some really small games with a friend on a 2x4 board until you get a good understanding of the turn sequence, moves, shooting, fight resolution and heroic actions. This will give you a nice introduction to how the rules work, what you think you need to beef up, etc. From there you'll feel a lot more comfortable building up to 500 points either by getting more boxes of plastics, and/or adding a few blisters of elites.

After that you'll be in a much better position to ask questions. Browse back through this forum for Harad armies to get some ideas.

BTW, since you don't know the rules yet, a couple points: there is a book Legions of Middle Earth which has rules for army composition and alliances. At a beginning points level you only need to know this:

1. only 33% of your warriors can be armed with a bow.
2. each allied contingent must conform to rule 1 and must be led by a hero
3. the model limit up to 500 points is 50 models

Quote:
Also, I like the Morgul Knight, Numenoreans and (by extension) Sauron model-wise. What are these guys like, can I play them in a Harad army, and how do they fare?


Those guys are part of the Mordor army. You can ally with them.

As for Sauron...it's often true in this game that the more potent/expensive the model is, the less likely it is to be used unless you're hitting 1000 points or more. Sauron and the Balrog are kind of in a class of their own, because they tend to make for really long boring frustrating games. The fun of the game is in maneuvering and tactics, not crowding around one model in the middle of the board and rolling endless rounds of dice to no effect. So I wouldn't be in a hurry to buy something like Sauron. You'll get a lot more mileage out of, say, a Mahud King and some camel riders, for 1/2 the point cost.

EDIT
@Gildor: sorry, I repeated a bunch of what you said...had it in edit and walked away for a couple hours.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:18 am 
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From what i heard, any subfaction from "Fallen realms" can go without the necessary comand to ally.
Only if you would like to include something outside the Fallen Realms (lets say mordor units, or Isengard for eg.) you need appropriate comand. At least in SBG, in WotR the rules are different.
Yet i am not 100% clear about this soo pardon me if this aint true.

As for the units - I myself love the Easterlings, they can do a solid punch and vs some enemies can even shake down most of bow fire (uruk xbows are something different) with nice D value. Not to mention they look really epick, and if painted well just the pure look can make your enemy shiver :D. The Phalanx rule is really neat, especially if you manage to use it one someone like Amdur lord of the Blades, or a Dragon Knight. Having one or even two possible bonus attacks on these guys can do some nice slaughter on the board. The War priest is nice addiot as well. Eventually a named Rigwraith like Khamul (but that is really hard to squeze in 500pts and have enough of the other troops) can wreak nice havoc as well.

I myself am using a mix of basic Rhun/Harad infantry. Easterlings in front, haradrim pikes 2nd line and another Easterlings using Phalanx rule in 3rd line.
Additionally, with the low cost, all my achers are pure Haradrim. Though weaker to bow fire, if they can manage to "pay for themself" - in points of enemies shot down, or as stated before with added a named Righwraith (there is a certain "anti archer" RW) then you can say they made their point ;)

As for cavalery, i aint using this much yet, becouse i dont have enough of them to deploy, well as guys before stated, they are rather expensive soo they are better as addition to the army rather than main core. (Though i know a guys from WFB who plays pure mounted army, all heavy steel, quite impresive it is, and potent).

As for the heroes, well there are some sweet things out there. Fro example Hasharin, Amdur, Abrakhan, Dalamyr, RW etc etc. who are not as potent as their "Good" counterparts, but banded togather with the rest of the army can be more then a suprise for your enemy.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:49 am 
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Myrdin wrote:
Yet i am not 100% clear about this soo pardon me if this aint true.


Nope, that ain't true :)
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:25 pm 
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Although part of Fallen Realms, they are individual lists in LoME. Anything on another page pretty much needs it's own Hero is a pretty easy rule of thumb. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:14 pm 
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:O
is that for War of the Ring, or for Strategy battle Game as well ? (coz if thats the case then i was playing with not legall army . . . damn, though it were just friendly 500pts skirmishes).

Soo if i want to make my Haradrim legal in my Rhun army i need either a Haradrim Comand Or i need to get specifically a hero ?
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Once GW release the Legions of Middle Earth supplement for SBG it became the official manual on army building. It broke all the models for each side (Evil / Good) down into lists based on theme and set rules for alliances between lists. Some lists could not be allied at all, which frustrated some players but really helped fix some theme issues that can easily plague WotR armies if you care about such things (and, by Tolkien, I do!!!). If you did want to pull in allies then each ally contingent basically had to be legal on its own merits. In other words, 33% max bows, at least one leader.

As SBG lost momentum you can often find used copies of LoME showing up on ebay at a good price.

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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:13 pm 
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Actually I do own a copy of Legions of Middlearth, but didnt read in that deeply yet. Thank you for the reference, ill look it up in there soo i can legalize my loyal army :D
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:27 pm 
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For friendly games I would strongly advise ignoring LoME and just play factions (Mordor, Gondor, Rohan, Wood Elves, etc), especially if you are more than 2 players.
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 Post subject: Re: New To the Game, and Interested In the Fallen Realms (SB
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:38 pm 
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The Horde Lord wrote:
For friendly games I would strongly advise ignoring LoME and just play factions (Mordor, Gondor, Rohan, Wood Elves, etc), especially if you are more than 2 players.


This is something I'm going to disagree with. If you have the rules, then why not play by them? Certainly learn them as those are the guidelines that most players and all tournaments go with. Also, by not allowing you to drop, say, Uruk-hai Crossbowmen in on a whim, LoME will force you to learn your army and how to maximize its' strengths better.

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