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considering starting harad & umbar
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22517		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  falcon98 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  considering starting harad & umbar
Hey guys, im a bit of a noob when it comes to LOTR as i have just started however i have already decided that i would like to collect a fallen realms force. (i have played 40K though for 5 years). Also, lucky as i am, i'm now getting a free mumak from my cousin :D
anyway, for my first army i would like to use it and i found this army list:

Warband 1:
The Betrayer - 120pts
12 haradrim warriors with 6 bows and 6 spears - 84pts

Warband 2:
Mumak with tusk weapons - 295pts

499 points

So what do you guys think? as i go up in points i am thinking of investing in serpent guard/riders or mahud raiders although with the mahud i would lose the harad bowmen special rule (1/2 bows instead of 1/3 bows if your force only contains . . . . ) as you can guess the guys go on the mumak :puppy:

Thanks in advance 8)
Author:  Maermaethor [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
The Mumak is a bit too much in a 500 point force in my opinion. However, if you do choose to use the Mumak, I highly recommend dropping the Betrayer, as a high costing hero AND a big monster are definitely too much for a 500 point force. If you drop him, you should be able to take a few more models. My Fallen Realms book has not arrived yet, but I assume that the Mumak (or the captain riding it) should be able to lead a warband going in the howdah, so replacing the Betrayer with a Haradrim captain will allow you to take another full warband of models if they do not all take bows or spears. What I would personally do is have 12 Haradrim with bow and 12 Haradrim with hand weapons (not taking a bow or spear, so 6 points) and then replacing the tusk weapons with rocks, and putting all the Haradrim with hand weapons in the howdah. Thus, you have 12 people there raining down strength 6 projectiles on the enemy, and still 12 bows being able to shoot at whatever.

To have Haradrim with just hand weapons, you could just say the spearmen count as not having spears, as they are not going to do any fighting where spears would be a benefit anyway, except in a very rare circumstance where two guys both miraculously survive the fall and DON'T get surrounded. And even if that happens, you will just remember that they don't have spears. If your opponent doesn't let you do that, you could convert guys to wield hand weapons, though it would not really be worth it unless you plan on using them in non-Mumak games as well. Anyway, if you opponent didn't let you count-as in that situation, he is an [word deleted] and chances are you shouldn't really be playing with his anyway.

If you want to upgrade your army, I would suggest first getting a box of Haradrim raiders, and because the title of your thread mentions Umbar, I would suggest that you also get a box of Corsairs and a hero to lead them (Corsair captain or bosun, or maybe Dalamyr). The corsairs add some fight value 4 and have throwing weapons. You might also want a mounted hero to lead the raiders and possible future cavalry. Suladan is good for that, or a Haradrim captain or king.

Thanks!

Maermaethor.
Author:  Draugluin [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
Trade the Betrayer for a better combat hero, like Suladan, and stick those 6 archers in the howdah. Trade most, if not all, of the spears for more troops. Do that and you can fit in 6 or 7 more guys, 3 of which would be archers in the howdah. Trading Suladan for a Chieftain would give you a lot more numbers.
Author:  falcon98 [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
woah! thanks for all the help guys :yay:
anyway, so starting from scratch again with the mumak, which is 275pts base (can't remember how much rocks cost - don't have the book yet either, just did this at a GW store last time . . . although yes, the mumak counts as a mountrous mount for a cheiftan etc who can lead a warband which fits onto the howdah) that leaves me with around 200pts left for a 500pts force. doing as you guys say - chieftan with warband of guys with hand weapons (rocks from mumak) and that should be around another 100 or so pts. thinking about this i might try and make a 600pt force for a staff challenge so that leaves around 200pts - Suladan and serpent riders/some guys with bows and campers/umbar raiders, if i had to choose i would go with either suladan + serpent riders or umbar raiders led by dalamyr although i am not very experienced so what do you guys say? :?

(also, converting the haradrim to have massive rocks/hand weapons should be fun :-D )

Thanks
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
You could use a Hardrim King instead.
Author:  Highlordell [ Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
falcon98 wrote:
Hey guys, im a bit of a noob when it comes to LOTR as i have just started however i have already decided that i would like to collect a fallen realms force. (i have played 40K though for 5 years). Also, lucky as i am, i'm now getting a free mumak from my cousin :D
anyway, for my first army i would like to use it and i found this army list:

Warband 1:
The Betrayer - 120pts
12 haradrim warriors with 6 bows and 6 spears - 84pts

Warband 2:
Mumak with tusk weapons - 295pts

499 points

So what do you guys think? as i go up in points i am thinking of investing in serpent guard/riders or mahud raiders although with the mahud i would lose the harad bowmen special rule (1/2 bows instead of 1/3 bows if your force only contains . . . . ) as you can guess the guys go on the mumak :puppy:

Thanks in advance 8)


You didn't get this from here did you? http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... eMode=true

Just a warning but GW is no where near the Creme de la creme of list building...far from it infact.

That said, if you want to use the Mumak at 500 points go for it, but I would save it for later. The main problem is that (if you dont know the rules) the enemy will only have to kill 7 or so of your quite weak Haradrim before your guys (including the Mumak), leg it off the board. Your opponent, who will have many more models, can afford to lose a lot more, so will be at a large advantage.

If you're playing against someone else just starting out though, I'd give it a go and see what you think, but I would definately listen to the advice above and below.

Good luck my friend. :)
Author:  falcon98 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
@Highlordhell, yeah :oops: got it from there:
falcon98 wrote:
i found this army list:


Highlordell wrote:
The main problem is that (if you dont know the rules) the enemy will only have to kill 7 or so of your quite weak Haradrim before your guys (including the Mumak), leg it off the board. Your opponent, who will have many more models, can afford to lose a lot more, so will be at a large advantage.

well, using the revised idea it would be up to 27 guys, resulting them having to kill nearly double the amount of guys . . (also, depending on how i make it, the haradrim would be on the mumak:
falcon98 wrote:
the mumak counts as a mountrous mount for a cheiftan etc who can lead a warband which fits onto the howdah
with the chieftan and i could have the rest of the guys as serpent guard with Suladan or umbar with Dalamyr . . . :?:
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
Where are you located? I have some Corsairs in various states of completion that I'm not using. I know I have about a box and a half worth, plus a Captain and Bo'Sun. I'd do you a good deal on trading them. :)
Author:  Draugluin [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
Highlordell wrote:
That said, if you want to use the Mumak at 500 points go for it, but I would save it for later. The main problem is that (if you dont know the rules) the enemy will only have to kill 7 or so of your quite weak Haradrim before your guys (including the Mumak), leg it off the board. Your opponent, who will have many more models, can afford to lose a lot more, so will be at a large advantage.

Mumaks and everyone on one auto pass all courage tests, including for broken forces.
Author:  falcon98 [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
well i'll PM you Lord Hurin and thankyou Draugluin for mentioning what i had forgotten :)
Author:  cereal_theif [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
The only time Mumaks take courage tests is when they suffer a wound or start a turn riderless
Author:  Highlordell [ Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
Draugluin wrote:
Highlordell wrote:
That said, if you want to use the Mumak at 500 points go for it, but I would save it for later. The main problem is that (if you dont know the rules) the enemy will only have to kill 7 or so of your quite weak Haradrim before your guys (including the Mumak), leg it off the board. Your opponent, who will have many more models, can afford to lose a lot more, so will be at a large advantage.

Mumaks and everyone on one auto pass all courage tests, including for broken forces.


Sorry...and I have the Harad and Fallen Realms Sourcebooks...should know better... :oops:
Author:  falcon98 [ Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
lol now i still want to use the mumak + cheiftan + warriors (rocks) but i have found out some nasty combos using hasharin and the betrayer . . . or should i just stick with Suladan and serpent raiders?
Author:  Erunion [ Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
This hobby is about fun. Choose whatever sounds most fun to you. If you like the idea of big elephants stomping around, then stomp all you want, and who gives a rip if you win. If, on the other hand, you enjoy crafting hard lists and striving for strategic mastery, then go for whichever list gives you the most competitive edge. You will get out of this hobby whatever you look for...
Author:  falcon98 [ Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: considering starting harad & umbar
hmm well i am in for fun ATM and i like the idea of the mumak so i guess i'll start with it with some haradrim, serpent raiders and Suladan :)
once again, thanks for all the help guys :D
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