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SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
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Author:  Alex [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Hey everyone, new to the board here and new to the SBG. I'm looking for thoughts on where to begin with putting together a 600pt list for a tourney I have coming up in a couple months. I'm not expecting to win, of course, but I'd like some help putting a versatile list together.

I have played WOTR, so I actually have rather large (1500 points+) number of models in my Isengard exclusively infantry and almost all Uruk (a troll) force. I'll list those, but if you could give me advice, whether it be in terms of a specific list or general group I don't care. I'd be happy with any advice.

Here's what I have:
Heroes: Lurtz, Saruman (though not sure I want to use him), Ugluk, various Uruk captains.

The Rest:
72 Warriors (40 with shield, 32 with pikes)
40 scouts (16 with bows, ~18 with shields, 2 with nothing, 2 with hobbits!) (I realize the bows are not ideal compared to crossbows from what I've read, but they are what I have, unfortunately)
8 Berserkers
Troll with spear

Given those options, what would you bring in 600 pts? Generally, what in that would work well together?

EDIT: Some specific questions:
1. Lurtz and Ugluk seem mostly equal, if I went Scout heavy, either of them make sense, but I'm actually surprised Lurtz isn't better. In fact, without the special rule, he seems worse. Does the shield make up for that?
2. Scouts vs. Warriors (if both have shields)?
3. Berserkers or the Troll worth it?

Thanks in advance!
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Reading this topic has reminded me of why I don't like GW's idea of putting Isengard in the Fallen Realms in the new books.

Do you not have any Uruk-hai Warriors with crossbows? Lurtz and Ugluk (and Mauhur too) are the same cost so they should be the same. Actually Lurtz is a little better than Ugluk's unless you have an awful lot of Orc Warriors. You should eithr take cavalry in the form of Warg Riders or Mauhur and use him to upgrade some Uruk-hai scout to move faster. Warriors and Scouts are both reasonably costed, +1pt for +1 defence, but if you want to know whether its worth the upgrade, check out the strength of your enemy to see what D6 score they need to hit you on and if they hit both Scouts w/ shield and Warriors w/ shield on the same result, get the Scouts, if they don't then you may consider the Warriors. Beserkers are worth it, Trolls usually aren't, it would be better if you had Saruman with him, and don't give the Troll a spear.
Author:  Alex [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Thanks much.

What do you mean you don't like Uruk in the Fallen Realms book? Is it an organizational thing or did they lose some options?

What you see in the list is what I have, so no crossbows right now (and troll I have has a spear unfortunately). I did like Mauher's rule, and I'd need to grab his model.

I should have been clearer, but both but I wondered since they are the same points, would Ugluk be better since he has the special rule where Lurtz doesn't (despite having a bow and shield)? It seems like you're saying yes because Ugluk's rule is only really effective with cheap orcs.


Thanks again.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
I don't like Isengard being in Fallen Realms for 'organizational' reasons, it isn't a fallen human realm like the others, though they did lose the Wild Man Chieftain.

With the Troll, just tell your opponent he doesn't have a spear. Do consider a few crossbows, convert some out of pikes if you want to save money.

About Ugluk, yes, his rule is only effective if you have lots of cheap orcs, whereas Lurtz has a bow, and can shield (though without the defence). I say, if you don't have lots of Orcs, get Lurtz only. If you do have the Orcs, you could use both.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
It doesn't particularly matter for force organization which book the army is in. It's hard to say which makes more sense though, Fallen Realms or Mordor. I'm of the mind that if GW had decided to split it up, they would likely have done a separate "Isengard" book so I'm happy to have it in one that I'd be buying anyway. Saruman did also fall. In fact, with the Haradrim, Easterlings and Variags always being portrayed as Evil it bring about the question of how exactly they qualify as "Fallen Realms" at all...

Would you typically take more shields than pikes in an Uruk-hai force? The 1:2 shield:pike ratio already forces us to buy twice as many boxes, then converting pikes into shields as well makes for even further disproportionate numbers.

On the last point about Ugluk, I'd say even killing a 10 point Uruk-hai is worth it vs the risk of losing a number of troops to courage tests. Their Captains are only Courage 4...
Author:  Alex [ Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
With the number of models I have, I can take more shields than pikes, pretty easily. Is that a better style of play?
Author:  Lord_Fizzle [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
The points may be a bit skewed as I am using my old books still but with what you have I would think about fielding the Following:

Warband 1: 270pts
Saruman
x10 Uruk-Hai Warriors (x5 Shields / x5 Pikes)

Warband 2: 114pts
Mauhur / Ugluk / Lurtz
x6 Uruk Scouts with Bows

Warband 3:
Uruk Hai Captain / Uruk Hai Shaman
Troll with Spear
x6 Uruk Hai Warriors (x3 Shields / x3 Pikes)

At 600 Points I would definitely use Saruman. Hes got a serious spread of useful spells that can paralyze and prevent an enemy charge. Because of his Voice of Command ability he can anchor an entire battle line. In addition, he can use the Palantir seize the initiative once a game which can make or break a strategy.

The list should let you roll with everything you have already. If you are willing to pick up two models I would seriously consider Mauhur and an Uruk Hai Shaman.

Mauhur is a versatile hero that will allow you to field those 6 uruk scouts as Mauhur's Marauders, giving your fire support some seriously boosted mobility (7" move and effectively the Woodland Creature rule). I don't think you are as disadvantaged as its being made out to be using bows vs. crossbows. I prefer the extra mobility you can get from using a bow.

If you can get a shaman I would seriously consider that. When fielding them switch the 6 warrior and 1 troll warband for the 10 warrior band. The Fury spell is a solid one that can anchor the other half of your army and make some of your uruks even tougher. If presented with a large creature or enemy hero, you can try a Transfix to slow it down enough to be dealt with by the uruks.

Oh and in terms of balancing the shield to pike ratio. I prefer to stick with an equal mix. The ability to get an extra model in to support is nice but I find that in practice it is difficult to actually pull off in the SBG. I would rather not rely on the pike rule and have a few more models with a higher defense in the army.

Hope that helps a bit!
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Isengard Uruk-hai do not need Fury. It is for Orcs and Goblins, Uruk-hai don't need them.

Mauhurs Marauders are movement 8 not 7.

Don't bother with the Troll as it is not a hero troll.
Author:  Draugluin [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Fury can help Uruks out, they only have 3 courage, and the 1/6 chance of survival is pretty good.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
It can help, but it's not as necesary. Of course if you need a hero, and none of the named heroes/generic uruk-hai captains are wanted. And I've just remembered, you can now inrease an Uruk-hai Shaman's defence with heavy armour making it a little less of a juicy target. It's not exactly a godsend for Isengard though.
Author:  Klench [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
I am looking on og 19 of the new fallen realms book and do not see the heavy armor upgrade for the shaman. However i do see the armor upgrade for 5 pts....is that what you meant?

Also, what is the difference between the heavy armor and armor upgrade? I do not see entries regarding armor effects in the new source books or rule book
Author:  Elessar Telcontar [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Klench wrote:
I am looking on og 19 of the new fallen realms book and do not see the heavy armor upgrade for the shaman. However i do see the armor upgrade for 5 pts....is that what you meant?

Also, what is the difference between the heavy armor and armor upgrade? I do not see entries regarding armor effects in the new source books or rule book


It's in the main rule book. Armour adds +1 Defense, heavy armour adds +2 Defense.
Author:  Telchar [ Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG Fallen Realms 600 pt Isengard help for new player
Lord_Fizzle wrote:
but I find that in practice it is difficult to actually pull off in the SBG.


I've just played only a few games, but in each of them every one of my Uruks has had full pike support all the time. You just line them up nicely and march forward at the biggest enemy unit, works every time (until my sister shoots Lurtz on turn 1 and my Captain on turn 2, then starts running away).
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