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Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
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Author:  IntereoVivo [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Hey folks,

I'm super new to LotR:SBG (I have yet to play a single game) but thought I'd start my education right.

I'm playing Mordor but with a couple restrictions...I'm not going to be playing anything with an ugly model. This pretty much means no orks (unless someone knows a reasonable "counts as" model) and that's okay by me as I really like "Elite" armies. For now, I have the following models:

18x Morgul Knights
-2 Knight Marshalls (converting them from Knights)
-2 Ringwraiths (converting them from Knights)
-2 Knights with Banners
-12 Morgul Knights

I was also thinking of picking up a couple of boxes of Dark Elf Corsairs to turn into "Counts As" Black Numenorians but I wanted to wait to find out a bit more about the game. I've also been kicking around the idea of Trackers on Wargs (I love me some speed) to add a ranged element to the army. Though there again, I have qualms unless I can find a suitable replacement model....

Anyway, any advice you might have for me would be appreciated.
Author:  The Horde Lord [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
You don't need two marshals (or banners or that matter), and I would suggest buying the Nazguls, their poses are really cool. If you get the Dark Marshal you won't need banners at all.
Author:  IntereoVivo [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Forgive my ignorance, but why will I not need two Marshals? Don't I need one to lead each force?

As for the Ringwraiths, I was considering the Dark Marshal and the Shadow Lord. Are there better options?
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Firstly, they are ORcs not Orks. Second;y, how can you possibly not like Orcs, they areawesome, they are the embodiment of Mordor and what it represents. No true person who claims to like Mordor could not love Orcs. Anyway, Wargames Factory do alternate Orcs if you prefer. Also, what about Elite Orcs like Morannon Orcs, and Morgul STalkers, or their two Uruk-hai; MOrdor Uruk-hai and Black Guards, or Warg Riders or Orc Trackers on foot. Anyway, I have come up with two different 500pt lists which you may like. Here is the first:

Warband 1:
The Dark Marshal w/ armoured horse OR the KNight of Umbar w/ armoured horse
7 Morgul Knights

Warband 2:
Black Numenorean Marshal w/ shield and armoured horse OR the Mouth of Sauron w/ armoured horse
7 Morgul Knights.

Of course that army is very small but an entire army of Morgul Knights is not to be underestimated. Of the choices in that list I would recommend the KoU ovver the DM as he will live longer, and I recommend the MoS over the BNM as you need more amgic more than you need more might.

Here is a different list, one taht ues infantry as well:

Warband 1:
The Dark Marshal w/ armoured horse OR the Knight of Umbar w/ armoured horse
6 Morgul Knights
6 Orc Trackers on Wargs

Warband 2:
Black Numenorean Marshal w/ shield OR the Mouth of Sauron
6 Black Numenreans
6 Morannon Orcs with shields and spears

I'm not sure if you like MOrannon Orcs but you cannot take infantry without spear support so I thought I'd give you them. Feel free to look at these lists.
Author:  IntereoVivo [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Thanks for the thoughts Gothmog. My bad on the Orcs...too much 40K :P

I love the IDEA of Orcs (and Uruk-hai) and Warg Riders, I'm just going to have to find other models as the models GW has are pretty terrible. Though I guess when I chose Mordor I should have seen it coming.

I think I'll start with that first list and then begin working toward the second. Again, I really like the idea of a fully mounted army, but I don't know enough about the game to know if it is viable.

Why is spear support necessary for infantry?
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
All cavalry can do well, but you need to playthem well. Morgul Knights for instance need magic and moght.

Spear support is necessary because every other army, save Dwarves, Rohan or a really bad list would use them, and you need to get as many men in each fight as possibke, and its easier with spears, as models in the centre cannot possibly get 2(you) on 1(them), or 2(you) on 2(them), unless you have spear support.
Author:  fritskuhntm [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
if not wanting orcs as spear support, you could take the black numenoreans in a harad army and ally in the morgul knights.
Author:  Valamir [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
True. Or you could do what a friend of mine has contemplated- painting Easterlings in a way to match Black Numenoreans and then using them to lead an Easterling Phalanx.

Not liking orcs does have you in a bit of a sticky situation- though if you back them right you could get away with an army of entirely Black Numenoreans- however, the Shadow Lord would be a necessity in that situation. And yes, having two Black Numenorean Marshals is fine. Basically you'll need to build your army around the Black Numenoreans (to be orc-less) and the support with Wraiths of varying flavors. Castellens do have their merits as well, though in many instances you'll be better off going with Marshalls for your army, I suspect.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
THe Easterling idea reminds me of a 1000pt Fallen Realms idea which has 12 Black Numenoreans suppported by 12 Haradrim Warriors with bows and spears supported by 12 Easterlings with pikes and shields, with the Mouth of Sauron leading 5 Morgul Knights in there too, and some Half Trolls, Suladan and a Dragon Knight. [EDIT: yes I know I have quite a few, but its good to keep your options open]

Castellans are Independant Heroes Valamir and cannot lead Warbands, I don't think any artmy other than a Grey Company Arnor should use any Independant Heroes until about 700-1000pts.
Author:  IntereoVivo [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
First, thanks a ton to all of you who've taken time to comment. This thread has been a great help.

Since 40K is my main game the concept of "allied" forces didn't even register with me so thanks to those who brought it up. It sounds like that is exactly what I'm looking for.

Since I already have my Morgul Knights, I'll be saving the addition of Harad + Umbar units for when I expand to 700-1000 points.

This leaves me with two questions for now. Is there a general rule for how many MKs that I should be including in each Warband? Is a Warband of 3 too few? Is 8 too many? Second, when I expand to included Harad + Umbar is there a disadvantage (besides lower model count) to running a full Cav list by adding Bow wielding Haradrim Riders?
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
5-6 Morgul Kinghts per decent hero.

Harad Raiders with both bows and war spears are a fairly decent buy, especially with the Betrayer, which is one of the few ways he is actually any good in SBG.
Author:  The Horde Lord [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
5-6 Morgul Kinghts per decent hero.

Harad Raiders with both bows and war spears are a fairly decent buy, especially with the Betrayer, which is one of the few ways he is actually any good in SBG.


Do Harad Riders have poisened spear, or are youjust talking about the bows.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Just poisned arrows, the best way to do it is to have one Warband with the Betrayer, with 6-8 Serpent Riders and 4-6 Harad Raiders with bows.
Author:  IntereoVivo [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
I've slapped 12 of my Knights together so far and will *hopefully* be playing a game this week.

I'm considering buying an army from someone who is looking to get out of the game. The main attraction for me being the two Fell Beasts. I love the *IDEA* of Fell Beasts, but are they playable?

At what point cost is it not absurd to field both?
Author:  The Horde Lord [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
People have used 700 point armies consisting of nothing but fell beasts in tournaments, and they have done well. A Fell Beast can often be seen as a cheap troll.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
FB can be pretty good, just stay away from heros. They die rather easily.
Author:  Valamir [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Thank you, Gothmog. I am aware that Dragon Knights are individuals, but not having the Mordor Sourcebook I am rather in the dark as to how their army works. But only in terms of army building.

I agree with Drauglin on the FB situation- they are capable, move fast, can be devastating, and can end messily if used wrong. They can work well to support a cavalry assault in many situations, but will be a flying target for any good archer that doesn't have a hero capable of dealing with one.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Valamir wrote:
Thank you, Gothmog. I am aware that Castellans of Dol Guldorare individuals, but not having the Mordor Sourcebook I am rather in the dark as to how their army works. But only in terms of army building.


I think that's what you meant.

Mordor army has the most variety of any list.
Author:  Valamir [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
Is that so? Interesting. Though I suppose that would make sense, now that they've finally gotten Mordor to have a proper range of troops (something it was lacking in its earlier days- the addition of Morannon Orcs, Black Guard, Morgul Stalkers, and Black Numenoreans finally helped the regular orc out a bit). Besides having a very large array of quite decent heroes, for at the very least comparable point cost. I shall have to take a look at their book sometime. :)
Author:  IntereoVivo [ Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mordor Army Advice for New Player [500pts]
How do people feel about the Black Guard of Barad-dur?

Is the extra 3 points (over Black Numenorians) worth it for the +2 Strength? They would probably be backed up by Morannon Orcs.

Also, if I were to take bowmen on foot, should they be in their own units or mixed with other models?
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