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Dom's Rivendell Army 1000pts and 500pts
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27221		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  DomyHill [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Dom's Rivendell Army 1000pts and 500pts
I'm trying to write an army list for Rivendell/Elrond's Household including my Knights of Rivendell as a starter (it's going to be a small army...) but before I start I need to know if there's any point in Rivendell Knights taking shields. It says in the rules that warriors armed with bows don't get the +1 defence perk when equipped with a shield. If this is the case is there any point spending the extra point on a shield?
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Ah, but they're Expert Riders: which means that they do in fact get the Defence bonus (as long as they are mounted). So you definitely want to equip them with those!
Author:  Thermo [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Hey buddy, they're expert riders so still get +1 defence with shield :)
Author:  Thermo [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Ah, but they're Expert Riders: which means that they do in fact get the Defence bonus (as long as they are mounted). So you definitely want to equip them with those!



You got there first :)
Author:  DomyHill [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Okay, thanks for clearing that up. Can models with banners have shields too?
Author:  DomyHill [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts/1000pts
Warband 1 is 494 points and the whole list is 996 points. What do you think?

Elrond's Household
----
Warband 1 12/12
Elrond with Heavy armour; Horse;
10 Knight of Rivendell with Shield;
2 Knight of Rivendell with Shield; Banner;
----
Eregion and Rivendell
----
Warband 2 12/12
Glorfindel, Lord of the West with Armour of Gondolin;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elf Bow;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elven Blade;
3 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
1 High Elf Warrior with Banner;
----
Warband 3 12/12
High Elf Stormcaller
4 High Elf Warrior with Elf Bow;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elven Blade;
3 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
1 High Elf Warrior with Banner;
----
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
That's a lot of banners, you could skip 3 and take Arwen instead, or swap the stormcaller and take the Twins.
Author:  DomyHill [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Skip 3?
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
I looks like you have four, and just MHO but that's too many. I rarely bother, though maybe it's because I'd rather have spears (they're cheaper)...not to mention I often forget to use them :) Plus, the warriors carrying them are at a disadvantage fighting, and you have so few numbers, every warrior counts.

Personally I'd skip them altogether, but one might be okay.
Author:  DomyHill [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Warband 1: 489
Warbands 1, 2 and 3: 998

Warband 1 12/12
Elrond with Heavy armour; Horse;
10 Knight of Rivendell with Shield;
1 Knight of Rivendell with Shield; Banner;
1 Knight of Rivendell with War horn; Shield;
----
Warband 2 12/12
Glorfindel, Lord of the West with Horse; Armour of Gondolin;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elven Blade;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elf Bow;
3 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
1 High Elf Warrior with Banner;
----
Warband 3 12/12
Erestor
4 High Elf Warrior with Elven Blade;
4 High Elf Warrior with Elf Bow;
4 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
----
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
Anyone wanna help out with what was presented in this topic.....you guys mentioned expert riders with shields....

So does a regular cavalry troop without expert rider not ever get a benefit from a shield? So in other words, can you equip one and it still doesnt count for anything?
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
@Domy, the horn is a waste on elves, they already have high courage. Even the presence of a wraith won't really effect them much. I'd take more shield+spear troops too, giving up a few blades to do it. Spear support has to be the best odds evener in the game.

LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
So does a regular cavalry troop without expert rider not ever get a benefit from a shield? So in other words, can you equip one and it still doesnt count for anything?


The issue is the presence of bows. You can't have a bow and also benefit from a shield's extra D (though you can still use the shielding rule). Riders of Rohan and Knights of Rivendell come with bows as part of their equipment, their Expert Rider rule allows them to benefit from the shield's extra D.
Author:  Galanur [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
non expert riders you can still equip with shield, diference is that their defence value wont increase if they carry both shield and bow, only expert riders will get increased defence carrying both weapons.

For example rivendell knight have defence 5 and carry a lance, sword and elf bow, if he wasnt expert rider by the time you equip the shield he would still have defence 5 cause you also carry a bow, since hes expert rider his defence bump up to 6. The warg riders on the other hand if you equip them with bow and shield, they will still keep defence 4, if you take only a shield and not the bow, his defence go up to 5 as normal.
When dismounting you have to make sure which gear they gonna equip themselves of the gear they have, or they retain the shield or replace it with the bow.sd
Author:  DomyHill [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
I've lost the Elven Blade (after reading the rules I've decided that against most armies they're probably not worth the points) and instead gone heavy on the shields and spears. I've also dropped Elrond in favour of more infantry. What do you think? This army is 1000pts (250pts from Elrond's Household).

Warband 1 12/12
Glorfindel, Lord of the West with Horse; Armour of Gondolin;
12 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
----
Warband 2 12/12
Erestor with Elven cloak;
11 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Spear;
1 High Elf Warrior with Shield; Banner;
----
Warband 3 12/12
High Elf Captain with Horse; Elf bow;
12 High Elf Warrior with Elf Bow;
----
Warband 4 6/12
Rivendell Knight Captain with Shield;
5 Knight of Rivendell with Shield;
1 Knight of Rivendell with Shield; Banner;
Author:  Galanur [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
elven blades got their use, winning tie combats on 3 to 6 roll unlike 4 to 6 and they also allow you to switch bettewn 1 hand use to 2 handed, but in this case, spears are a good option
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
That looks much better to me. It's hard to justify Elrond and 12 knights below 1500 points. However I agree with Galanur that a *few* elf blades are very useful. If you trap a troll or some other high D model, going 2H is handy. I usually play lothlorien, and a couple of blades following Rumil around has proven very effective.
Author:  mertaal [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
whafrog wrote:
It's hard to justify Elrond and 12 knights below 1500 points.


But they will look so cooool!
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
mertaal wrote:
whafrog wrote:
It's hard to justify Elrond and 12 knights below 1500 points.

But they will look so cooool!


Yes they would :) and I look forward to fielding the same some day. We haven't played in a while, but the other day finally devoted an afternoon to the game...and decided that from now on we'd only play 1500 point games. Anything less and we don't get to field the really fun stuff. It allowed me to field Radagast + Galadriel (fighty version) as the White Council, Treebeard, plus Celeborn + Rumil + Haldir + Stormcaller, and still have a decent model count to counter a mixed Saruman-led Isengard (with Troll) + Far Harad force.

So I can see the day where the first 500 points is Elrond and friends...
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
whafrog wrote:
@Domy, the horn is a waste on elves, they already have high courage. Even the presence of a wraith won't really effect them much. I'd take more shield+spear troops too, giving up a few blades to do it. Spear support has to be the best odds evener in the game.

LordoftheBrownRing wrote:
So does a regular cavalry troop without expert rider not ever get a benefit from a shield? So in other words, can you equip one and it still doesnt count for anything?


The issue is the presence of bows. You can't have a bow and also benefit from a shield's extra D (though you can still use the shielding rule). Riders of Rohan and Knights of Rivendell come with bows as part of their equipment, their Expert Rider rule allows them to benefit from the shield's extra D.


Cant you just shoot the bows for a bit then throw them down so to speak and use the shield? Its realistic, so maybe the game doesnt allow for it?
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dom's Rivendell Army 500pts
The game doesn't allow for it. More to track, like tokens for who has thrown down. You could house rule it of course...
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