The One Ring :: View topic - 500 points Isengard for channel

Feedback always appreciated!

Point RE: spear support is that single model 2A can negate that and frees up your single attack models to gang up, or vice versa. Your shield carrying d6 uruks shield to tie up spear lines whilst your 2A models are free to outflank and gang up and do the killy part.

Ugluk is all well and good, but defence 5 when only on 1F 2W makes the likes of him and some of the other names Uruk heroes vulnerable. So choice was to opt for the D7.

Glad to hear I got the vrasku plus crossbows plus ferals/berserkers part right!

I like Dunlendings but the above is definitely an Uruk-Hai army (I'll build a pure Dunlending list sometime!)

Mauhur is good but same reason for not including him at a Lurtz or Ugluk. Everytime I've come up against any of them, they've got down easy peasy. Whereas Uruk Captains you get it all and the options for extra defence, sacrificing a might point yes but harder to kill.

I'm not keen on pikemen, yes we get the extra support but it's messy. I'd rather have the D6 and option to shield on the Uruk-hai than having to try and line up pikes and having the potential problems with being trapped.

Berserkers are great and of course, if you've got the points spare, they are better than ferals

But plenty of blue on blue at tournaments means str4 aplenty, which negates the defence. Of course, courage is good! But the above list comes to 499 points.

As for shaman, he'll be there in the heart of it all in the rear, lending that fury to all. He's started with the feral war band here just because of the D5 vs D6.

Hope that explains some of the choices!

Author:	Thermo [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	500 points Isengard for channel
So as you all know, I am incredibly committed to this channel Jamie and I are building (as is he) and both have made conscious decisions to branch into armies that we wouldn't have normally, all for the entertainment of all you subscribers! As such, I have 500 points of the following All Cavalry Rohan (painted) High Elves (nearly painted!) Army of Thor (unpainted) Angmar (unpainted) Eagles (mostly unpainted) Ents (painted) Harad and Umbar (half painted) Grey Company (painted but need rebasing) Jamie has Wood Elves Durin's Folk Moria More from what I can tell but the above or variations of are what he tends to bring to the table. He has decided to build a Laketown army, just for you guys (his pockets weep) But I thought Isengard would be an easy one, especially since evil is under represented by me! This is the list I considered… Vrasku 10 Uruk-Hai with Crossbows Uruk Captain with heavy armour and shield 10 Uruk-Hai with shields Uruk Shaman 7 Feral Uruk-Hai 3 Uruk-Hai Berserkers

Author:	Gwaryan [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
The list might suffer a little without spear support, but if your crossbows can take out enemy fire it should be a little more fun. You could also consider replacing the Uruk Captain with Ugluk to get some more might in

Author:	SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
I think the list is good but discussion is always fun, hence why I am replying. Damian will probably give you the best advice because his Isengard list is incredible, but I've played loads of isengard lists and would like to think I can see what works and what doesn't. That said here is my advice: Vraksu, maxed out crossbows, and some form of feral/beserker spam is auto-include for basically every isengard army - so you got that right. If you are going to be playing models like Thranduil/Stormcallers, I rate the Dunlending Chieftain very highly. Although he lacks fight 5, he does have 3 will, which means he can safely resist a natures wrath - at higher point games where you've already got your main heroes in the army I would take one of these guys over an Uruk Captain any day. Mauhur is the only 'beatstick' in the game who costs 60 points, although he hasn't got the all important 3 might, the 3 attacks and 8" move more than make up for it. If he calls a heroic combat he can throw himself 8" across the board, which makes him a bit more cinematic than the average uruk captain. With that in mind here is what I would recommend: Mauhur 10 Ferals Uruk Shaman 10 Uruk Pikemen Vrasku 10 Crossbows

Author:	-Bolg- [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
agree with marsbars list, but I should take berserkers instead of ferrals, D6 matters so mutch, when fighting F3 your ennemy kills half of what it's whit ferralls. C7 is good, but D6 is important. Crossbows with vrasku shaman should lead low courage models for fury, normal uruk hai. Lucas

Author:	SuicidalMarsbar [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
You make good points Bolg but the extra 3 point for beserkers stacks up, if the ferals were swapped to beserkers the army would have to lose 3 pike warriors! Also if you have fury there is little point paying extra pts for a high courage model.

The One Ring http://test.one-ring.co.uk/

500 points Isengard for channel http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=27766	Page 1 of 2

Author:	ste271276 [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Both very good lists, Uruks are cheap as chips on ebay for bog standard warriors.

Author:	Thermo [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Feedback always appreciated! Point RE: spear support is that single model 2A can negate that and frees up your single attack models to gang up, or vice versa. Your shield carrying d6 uruks shield to tie up spear lines whilst your 2A models are free to outflank and gang up and do the killy part. Ugluk is all well and good, but defence 5 when only on 1F 2W makes the likes of him and some of the other names Uruk heroes vulnerable. So choice was to opt for the D7. Glad to hear I got the vrasku plus crossbows plus ferals/berserkers part right! I like Dunlendings but the above is definitely an Uruk-Hai army (I'll build a pure Dunlending list sometime!) Mauhur is good but same reason for not including him at a Lurtz or Ugluk. Everytime I've come up against any of them, they've got down easy peasy. Whereas Uruk Captains you get it all and the options for extra defence, sacrificing a might point yes but harder to kill. I'm not keen on pikemen, yes we get the extra support but it's messy. I'd rather have the D6 and option to shield on the Uruk-hai than having to try and line up pikes and having the potential problems with being trapped. Berserkers are great and of course, if you've got the points spare, they are better than ferals But plenty of blue on blue at tournaments means str4 aplenty, which negates the defence. Of course, courage is good! But the above list comes to 499 points. As for shaman, he'll be there in the heart of it all in the rear, lending that fury to all. He's started with the feral war band here just because of the D5 vs D6. Hope that explains some of the choices!

Author:	Dr Grant [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: Damian will probably give you the best advice because his Isengard list is incredible Oh you Right, time to give some awful advice... It's a good list James, you've picked the best parts of the army. In the first instance all I'd do (and this will surprise no-one) would be to swap the 10 shield uruks for 7 Ferals and a Beserker. This'll mean you have to drop a crossbowman but you can replace him with another Feral for 499 points. 7 Ferlas + 1 Beserkers > 10 uruks with shields EVERY day of the week. The key thing to winning with the Feral/Beserker list is to go all out. You've only got 10 two attack models and you can be damn sure they'll be top of your opponents missile targets - by the time the lines clash the enemy will be able to overpower your shield Uruks easily. If you make your whole army (bar the crossbows) 2 Attacks then your opponent won't be able to stop you getting to his lines. I must admit Isengard suffer slightly at this points level, the Feral heavy list is devastating at 400 points or less and at 700 points and above but they don't have a decent middle level character to lead an army of 500 points. That said you've made the right choice with what you've got available, a D7 Uruk Captain is absolutely the right choice at this level, well worth the loss of a Might point. The other choice you have available to you which you rarely see but I've found to be very effective is Sharky and Worm. You don't get a lot of spell casters at 500 points and 4 shots at a 2+ Immobilise (for my money the best spell in the game) is very good indeed. Most heroes you'll face won't have much Will (hence why Marsbar loves the Chieftain) and you'll be able to drain their Will supply and get some Immobilises without too much trouble. If you read my 'Dr Grant's Adventures in Preston' thread you'll see that the 4 games I won (with a 500 point Uruk force) were all significantly helped by Sharky Immobilising leaders at the right time. Also, the models are hella cool and you don't see them on the table a lot which is always fun. As for the endless Feral VS Beserker debate, it utterly depends who you're playing, if you're fighting elves (S3 shooting and fighting) then yes, of course you'd go Beserker heavy. However, if you don't know who you're fighting (i.e. at tournaments) then there's so much S2 shooting and S4 fighting that a Feral's D5 is just as good as the Beserker's D6. There's also a rather counter-intuititve argument that channelled Fury is more effective with D5 Ferals than D6 Beserkers as you'll take more wounds and so will save more across the game, getting more worth out of your shaman! I don't rate two-handed weapons in this context either, you use two-handers when you outnumber the enemy and know someone else will win the fight for you, that rarely happens with this list so you'll probably not use them. The courage 7 is the biggest draw of the Beserkers for me, it means they really don't tend to run. However, my play style involves having channelled Fury in play so courage tests rarely come up, if you get broken and your shaman's dead then you probably have bigger issues than your Ferals legging it and even then C5 is certainly not to be sniffed at (I never hear elves complaining about low courage). Ultimately, using this kind of elite army is about shredding them with crossbows and then running in and cutting them apart, it won't win in a protracted fight (with either Ferals or Beserkers) as you'll just get overwhelmed by numbers so the defence doesn't often come into it. The best way to not die is not to have a high defence, it's to win fights and in that case the more numbers you have the better. You get 5 Ferals for every 4 Beserkers and, as you scale that up to 20 or so models the extra bodies will easily make up for their low defence. Them's my thoughts, hold them close, they are tender.

Author:	ste271276 [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Dr. Grant could you elaborate a little.... lol

Author:	Dr Grant [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
It takes a long time to say anything in old Grantish, and I never say anything, unless it is worth taking a long time to say.

Author:	ste271276 [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
lol, You found them Grant wives yet?

Author:	Thermo [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
I have the same philosophy with my Rohan Damian, hence the sons of Eorl, so completely agree with you! I think my list seems a decent starting point and in the meantime, I'll happily take feral donations! I've picked up all the above, just short vrasku and 2 ferals. Will see how I get on and if I enjoy, slowly start replacing the Uruk shields with ferals.

Author:	Thermo [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Colours seem straightforward??

Author:	LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Thermo wrote: Feedback always appreciated! Point RE: spear support is that single model 2A can negate that and frees up your single attack models to gang up, or vice versa. Your shield carrying d6 uruks shield to tie up spear lines whilst your 2A models are free to outflank and gang up and do the killy part. Ugluk is all well and good, but defence 5 when only on 1F 2W makes the likes of him and some of the other names Uruk heroes vulnerable. So choice was to opt for the D7. Glad to hear I got the vrasku plus crossbows plus ferals/berserkers part right! I like Dunlendings but the above is definitely an Uruk-Hai army (I'll build a pure Dunlending list sometime!) Mauhur is good but same reason for not including him at a Lurtz or Ugluk. Everytime I've come up against any of them, they've got down easy peasy. Whereas Uruk Captains you get it all and the options for extra defence, sacrificing a might point yes but harder to kill. I'm not keen on pikemen, yes we get the extra support but it's messy. I'd rather have the D6 and option to shield on the Uruk-hai than having to try and line up pikes and having the potential problems with being trapped. Berserkers are great and of course, if you've got the points spare, they are better than ferals But plenty of blue on blue at tournaments means str4 aplenty, which negates the defence. Of course, courage is good! But the above list comes to 499 points. As for shaman, he'll be there in the heart of it all in the rear, lending that fury to all. He's started with the feral war band here just because of the D5 vs D6. Hope that explains some of the choices! I see your reasoning behind all of the choices, but I have two things. Opinion wise-Yes, berserkers are good but your can take 3 more ferals and add another model instead. As for Captain-I really really think Mauhur is such an obviously better choice. I mean come on, the might the movement the attacks....hes just such a value. Keep him protected till you can slaughter their archers and other guys.

Author:	Thermo [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Think I have a couple of options… (no list in front of me so off the top of my head) Witch-King (armoured horse, crown of morgul, 3M12W3F) 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) Burhdur 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) Shade 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) or Witch-King (armoured horse, crown of morgul, 3M13W3F) 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) 2 Dead Marsh Spectres Angmar Shaman 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) Shade 4 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) 1 Angmar Orc with banner or Dwimmerlaik (horse) 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) Burhdur 5 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) Shade 4 Angmar Orcs (axes/picks) 5 Angmar Orcs (spears) 1 Angmar Orc with banner

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Author:	rumtap [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Hi Thermo, I think you need to consider your purpose and theme before picking an army. If it is simply to slaughter the foe then the good Doctor's advice is well worth a listen. But if you are wanting to showcase the different strengths and weaknesses of a uruk-hai force to the potential player on the channel, then perhaps a different approach would be better. Take a mix of models so people can see what they do and how they perform.

Author:	Dr Grant [ Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: As for Captain-I really really think Mauhur is such an obviously better choice. I mean come on, the might the movement the attacks....hes just such a value. Mauhur's only got 2 Might - same as the captain. The 3 S5 attacks are juicy but at 500 points you need your leader to be durable and D5 is just far too squishy for my taste.

Author:	GWvsJohn [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
What's your 500 point Angmar list?

Author:	Dr Grant [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
Thermo wrote: I think my list seems a decent starting point and in the meantime, I'll happily take feral donations! Dr Grant donates his Precious horde of Ferals. In other news pigs were seen flying over London today.

Author:	Thermo [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 500 points Isengard for channel
I've seen they're not on the site anymore, when did they go OOP?