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500 pts Arnor - feedback?
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Author:  Pindergorn [ Sun May 11, 2014 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  500 pts Arnor - feedback?
A possible list for the next Desolation of Stockport tourney in September. Any feedback and advice?

_______________________________________________________________

Arnor

Warband 1

"Aranarth", First Chieftain of the Dunedain (Halbarad with Arwen's Banner)
6 Warriors of Arnor

Warband 2
Malbeth
6 Warriors of Arnor

Warband 3
Captain of Arnor with shield
6 Warriors of Arnor

Warband 4
Captain of Arnor with shield
5 Warriors of Arnor

8 Might.
1 Bow.
27 models / Break Point = 14
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At the previous DOS in April, I used:

Halbarad with Banner
12 Warriors of Arnor

Malbeth
12 Warriors of Arnor

Captain of Arnor with shield and bow
2 Rangers of Arnor
3 Rangers of Arnor with spear

Last time, whilst the list proved very durable and capable of holding the line well thanks to Halbarad's Banner (6" range and Auto pass courage) and Malbeth's special rule (saves wounds suffered by models within 6" on a 5+), I struggled to actually do a lot of damage. In several games, my Warriors of Arnor needed 6s to wound or worse.

I only had one good combat hero, the Captain (with Halbarad in reserve due to his banner giving him -1 to Fight), but I tended to deploy the Captain away from the lines with the rangers.

Monsters in particular gave me a lot of trouble, as a Mordor Troll and Fellbeast were able to repeatedly hurl models through my lines knocking multiple models down and messing up the shield walls.

With two Arnor Captains, however, I'll have more Might and two capable F5 2A 2 Might Heroes to go on the offensive and do damage. With the 6" range Auto Courage and 5+ "Fate" from Malbeth, they should be able to survive for quite a while.

Would two Arnor Captains be enough to take on monsters and go on the offensive?
Author:  Major_Tom [ Mon May 12, 2014 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
I wonder if the banner is needed, passing courage is great but it’s a big investment at 600 points and also means Halbarad is stuck at the back rather than getting stuck in

That said if you need to deal with monsters then Elf Twins can do that
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon May 12, 2014 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Major_Tom wrote:
I wonder if the banner is needed, passing courage is great but it’s a big investment at 600 points and also means Halbarad is stuck at the back rather than getting stuck in

That said if you need to deal with monsters then Elf Twins can do that


Forgot to mention, its a themed list set shortly after the fall of Arthedain and Fornost. "Aranarth" (Halbarad) is the heir to the lost King Arvedui and is rallying the survivors of Arthedain. The banner is a key part of that theme and the overall tactics of the list.

The combination of a 6" range banner that allows an Auto Pass on Courage tests (VERY useful for the Warriors' low C2) and Malbeth's special rule (+5 "Fate" roll for all wounds suffered within 6") creates a very durable if compact battle line. With all my warriors in tight compact shieldwalls, they're vulnerable to Monsters using hurl and other effects that can disrupt and knock over dense groups of models (Natures Wrath, Siege Bows etc).

I've got some Rivindell Knights. If I ever want to expand the army, a cool addition would be some Rivindell Knights and a mounted, armoured Glorfindel (would need opponents permission to Glorfindel and Knights in the same Warband).

A year after Fornost fell to to the Witch King's armies, and King Arvedui fled north and drown in the ice bay of Forochel, a large army from Gondor met up with an army of Elves and marched to Fornost where they crushed the Angmarim and forced the Witch King to flee (in the Hobbit films, its implied that he was killed and buried).

Aranarth and Glorfindel were both present.
Author:  Highlordell [ Mon May 12, 2014 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Do you actually really need the banner though? I'd be tempted to just give a Warrior of Arnor one and save the points, heck, keep the Banner modelled no the Halbarad just don't give him it. I understand WoA are low Courage, but apart from Terro tests it doesn't really matter as Halbarad's C6 means he'll past 9/10 stand fasts and so the banner seems like a bit of a waste.
At 750 maybe, but not 500.

That said you probably finished above me at DoS so who am I to judge? :o
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon May 12, 2014 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Highlordell wrote:
Do you actually really need the banner though?


Possibly not, but I certainly like it. The combination of Arwen's Banner and Malbeth's gift of Foresight Rule work well together as buffs for my Warriors.

Quote:
I'd be tempted to just give a Warrior of Arnor one and save the points,


I do have a Warrior banner, but will likely reserve him for smaller games, larger games when I have the points to take multiple banners, and games when I know I won't be facing terror monsters.

Quote:
heck, keep the Banner modelled no the Halbarad just don't give him it. I understand WoA are low Courage, but apart from Terro tests it doesn't really matter as Halbarad's C6 means he'll past 9/10 stand fasts and so the banner seems like a bit of a waste.


It worked quite well for me in Stockport.

The Banner meant that I could throw lots of C2 Warriors at Terror monsters to swarm and trap them without the risk of them failing to charge. The 6" ensured that the majority of my army had a reroll at all times.

And the 5+ Fate roll from Malbeth helped cut my losses down a lot, to the point that it appeared to be frustrating at times for my opponents. :lol: I had a game with a guy called Soren (?), To The Death. I decided to play very defensively and force him to come to me, so I deployed my ENTIRE force between three impassable rocks, holding the three narrow chokepoints with shieldwalls in a formation so dense that my models could not move. A lot like the Battle of Cannae really.

They held up very well against his Orcs, but the Fellbeast and Mordor Troll Chieftain played havoc with them, using hurl to bowl over entire shield walls at a time. Still, thanks to Malbeth it took him a long time to do enough damage to disrupt the formation and break my force, at which point I retreated around a corner and reformed a shield wall to protect my leader Halbarad. I lost in the end, but only because my force was broken, my leader was wounded (but still living) and the enemy leader still lived.

I was also very lucky with priority rolls and despite being knocked to the ground every turn, very few of my warriors were attacked whilst they were down. I think there was only a handful of fights, and they used shielding to survive then stood back up ASAP.

In fact, it was my Rangers and ranger captain that I felt let me down, they did very little damage all weekend bar one lucky shot that caused a wound on the Fellbeast.

Swapping the rangers and ranger captain out for two Captains gives me two F5 S4 D7 A2 Heroes with 2 Might each and the freedom to go on the offensive (as opposed to Halbarad and Malbeth who stayed behind the lines to provide support). I reserved Halbarad's Might for Heroic Marches and Moves, and he only got stuck in once the lines broke.

Quote:
That said you probably finished above me at DoS so who am I to judge?


I finished at 38th.
Author:  Highlordell [ Mon May 12, 2014 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Well from what it sounds like it worked quite well. :)
Your new list looks better on paper, and you're right it's certainly got more hitting ability with the Captain.
If you came up against Terror alot (which apparently you did) then I suppose the Banner is well justified, especially if they shield wall is what you're going for. The Captain will be useful for Heroic Strike aswell.

Came 3 places below me, only just. :oops:

I would say that now you've taken the shooting out people may just stand and shoot you, but you're D6 and have Malbeth so that shouldn't be a problem. I think you're only weakness will be all cavalry, but that said there isn't really anything you can do about that.

New list is better IMO anyway. :)

EDIT: The theme is :!: awesome btw. :P
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon May 12, 2014 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Oh btw, while I'm currently using the (original) Pelennor Field Halbarad, I'm paying UK Freddy Bear to convert a dedicated "Aranarth" model for me from an Aragorn model. he's also going to try and magnetise the right arm so I can swap between a banner and spear between games. :D
Author:  Pindergorn [ Mon May 12, 2014 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Highlordell wrote:
Well from what it sounds like it worked quite well. :)
Your new list looks better on paper, and you're right it's certainly got more hitting ability with the Captain.


Quote:
If you came up against Terror alot (which apparently you did) then I suppose the Banner is well justified, especially if they shield wall is what you're going for. The Captain will be useful for Heroic Strike aswell.


Well, it was just the penultimate game with Soren really, with his Fellbeast Ringwraith and Troll.

In another game, I faced a Thranduils Halls player using the new Thranduil but for some reason he never chose to use the Terror ability (one time per game IIRC).

And there was a another game when my opponent had a Ringwraith mounted on a horse, but I never got close enough to charge him.

But in past experience, Terror monsters have been rather irritating for me with a pure Arnor army. With C2, it can be difficult to tar pit monsters and now that they can use Hurl to turn your men into ballistic missiles, feeding them one model at a time is more risky.


Quote:
Came 3 places below me, only just. :oops: I would say that now you've taken the shooting out people may just stand and shoot you,


I found that it happened anyway. in one game, I faced off against Thranduil, six palace guards, 10 M.rangers, Legolas and Tauriel. My opponent stuck his Leader Thranduil out in the centre with his Guards and had his rangers, L & T sit back and shoot. I tried to ignore his rangers and concentrated on surrounding and trapping Thranduil and the guards, whilst sniping at his rangers with my Arnor rangers. I won but only just. My rangers picked off maybe 2 or 3 of his, but took even more in return IIRC. My Warriors surrounded and picked off the Guards one by one, but my supporting spearmen were whittled down by 50%.

And in another game (Blockade) i had no choice but to charge directly at a warband of Uruk Hai crossbowmen. I hoped I could break through before the rest of his infantry arrived. Halbarad eventually broke through the line of crossbowmen whilst my warriors were holding off the infantry, but 3 uruks managed to catch him. He had another 18" or so to go.

that was a damn exciting game.

Quote:
I think you're only weakness will be all cavalry, but that said there isn't really anything you can do about that.


I found that it depended on the objective.

in Sieze the Prize, no cavalry was a crippling weakness. My opponent had 6 Rivindell Knights and used a Heroic march to surround the prize and block my infantry off on TURN 1. :o He had a few Knights hold off my men for two turns, whilst another digged up the prize and ran away. There wasn't a single casualty in the entire game - :lol: the only action was when I unhorsed 3 of his Knights. :oops: I conceded on Turn 4 because his (mounted) knight had a clear run to the board edge and my shield wall was still blocked off by his Knights and terrain.

But in games that focus on Combat - To the Death, Lords of Battle, Rescue - and games with a stationary objective - Hold Ground - it worked quite well because I was able to turtle up and play defensively, or concentrate my forces.

the only real problem i had was monsters, and crossbows on a map with LOTS of impassable terrain creating chokepoints and limited routes of escape (blockade). I also couldn't keep with the speed of cavalry.



Quote:
New list is better IMO anyway. :)

EDIT: The theme is :!: awesome btw. :P
[/quote]

I also have King Arvedui. I should get some Eskimo/Inuit miniatures and wooly mammoths to use as Lossoth of Forochel.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lossoth+of+forochel&client=firefox-a&hs=3zz&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=mkRxU7ShEIakO-ivgZAO&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=595
Author:  Highlordell [ Tue May 13, 2014 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 500 pts Arnor - feedback?
Looks like you know how you're army plays, and how to play it effectivley, which is always good with something as limited as Arnor.

Yeh I played Soren on the Friday on seize the prize. That Fellbeast and Troll was a hard combination. As I had 30+ models with my Harad, I just fed them both and used my one cavalry model to get off the board.
The Golden King then dealt with the Troll accordingly. :lol:


I can understand worried about cavalry (as I was aswell, I might have played that Rivendell Knight army), as its tough for you to keep the theme if you just all yin some RoR from example. The only thing you could really do is mount some RotN, but that obvs means dropping some WoA.

Sounds like you had some good games, glad I didn't play against a pure Thranduil's Halls list...

Have you thought about a suitable profile to proxy the Lossoth as?
The only S4 Good troop I can think of is Helmingas...oh and Khazad Guard. :o
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