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| Mirkwood captains http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=29008 |
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| Author: | DwarfWarrior [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Mirkwood captains |
I was just thinking of making a mirkwood army. And whether to use captains or not. The army is likely to be around 500pts, i am using Tauriel and probably Thruanduil. But are the captains worth using for a last warband (either ranger captain or palace guard). As i already have the old Legolas. And could someone suggest a good army for Mirkwood. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Gildor_Inglorion [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Although I love the captain models, the named heroes are loads better if you're comparing. At 500pts I use: Legolas (with armour & elven cloak) 11 Rangers Thranduil (with armour) 11 Rangers If your rollings hot, Tauriels great but one bad combat and she'll be in trouble. Its a tough army to use, so delicate. |
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| Author: | DwarfWarrior [ Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Yeah i also like the captains, but the heroes are definatley better. My choice is; Tauriel 10 rangers Thranduil 6 palace guard with spears Legolas with Armour 2 Palace guard with sheilds |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
DwarfWarrior wrote: I was just thinking of making a mirkwood army. And whether to use captains or not. The army is likely to be around 500pts, i am using Tauriel and probably Thruanduil. But are the captains worth using for a last warband (either ranger captain or palace guard). As i already have the old Legolas. And could someone suggest a good army for Mirkwood. Thanks. With heros like Legolas, Thranduil, and Tauriel, there is absolutely no reason to take a ranger captain unless you wanted to make a weird specific battle themed army in the forest against the Hunters or something..... |
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| Author: | halauas [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Its not only the mirkwood captains but ALL the elf captains (rivendel/lothlorien/mirkwood/) are the worst captain type in SBG in my opinion. They are expensive for captains and the named elven heroes are alwyas 5-10 points away with double their stats/rules. No points picking a captain when you have so good heroes in your list |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
halauas wrote: Its not only the mirkwood captains but ALL the elf captains (rivendel/lothlorien/mirkwood/) are the worst captain type in SBG in my opinion. They are expensive for captains and the named elven heroes are alwyas 5-10 points away with double their stats/rules. No points picking a captain when you have so good heroes in your list Captain profiles were included, for those instances where you want to have a generic army/scenario, or simply because you are playing huge points but have run out of named heroes, not all the profiles are designed for competitive play it is a versatile game we play, we shouldn't be constantly thinking about if things are worth it in the current meta or not. Also theme wise Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel might not want to be somewhere in the misty mountains, fangorn, Harad or other foreign parts for that matter. I remember the days where in the rules the profiles for a captain actually said, 'we have included the option for captains for you to use in your games'. Some factions really need them, look at the army of the dead for instance |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Grungehog wrote: halauas wrote: Its not only the mirkwood captains but ALL the elf captains (rivendel/lothlorien/mirkwood/) are the worst captain type in SBG in my opinion. They are expensive for captains and the named elven heroes are alwyas 5-10 points away with double their stats/rules. No points picking a captain when you have so good heroes in your list Captain profiles were included, for those instances where you want to have a generic army/scenario, or simply because you are playing huge points but have run out of named heroes, not all the profiles are designed for competitive play it is a versatile game we play, we shouldn't be constantly thinking about if things are worth it in the current meta or not. Also theme wise Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel might not want to be somewhere in the misty mountains, fangorn, Harad or other foreign parts for that matter. I remember the days where in the rules the profiles for a captain actually said, 'we have included the option for captains for you to use in your games'. Some factions really need them, look at the army of the dead for instance I mean true, if you REALLY want to theme your battle, but frankly, even theme wise, Id much rather imagine a story where one of our beloved heros, Legolas, went with a band of troops to Harad to take some dudes on..... I like the characters too much to theme them out is my point. And to reinforce his point from earlier..... a wood elf captain compared to Haldir: Haldir + 10 points, you get a bow, a special rule, and extra might Rumil + 5 points, +2 Defe, +1might, and a special rule Legolas + 1 might, +2 fate, +1 will, AMAZING special rule The only thing special the elves captains have for their points is fight value. |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Fact remains if you want a PURE list, above say 700pts you will need more than the first 3 named heroes. THey have their purpose, even if they come as low priority choices! |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Well yeah of course they do. But personally I dont know your definition of pure list.....or anyones for that matter. If you mean pure elves yeah....but to me, I play this game because of the books/movies which were filled with crazy stories and unlikely alliances. At 750-800 pts Id use Thranduil, Legolas, their warbands, and Beorn. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
I'm a faction purist as well. I refuse to mix and match. If we're playing a team battle like Minas Tirith and Rohan then a different player will control each faction. I know it's not required but personally I far prefer it and my experiences in many other table top games definitely leads towards it. I do like Captains, as stated above they're not point for point the best but as GH points out that's exactly why they're there. And idk about anyone else but I do name my captains and personally I get far more enjoyment out of them doing great in game than a "named character" So in reference to the OP, no the Standard Captains aren't the most points efficient, but they have v their own values and the Guard captain at least gives you solid defense, which other Mirkwood heroes cannot claim |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
^Eh, Ill do it when it comes down to like Goblins....Ill use like Grinnah then all captains or with like Hunter Orcs where there is no other options but I cant just throw away named heros. In this case, his army is around 500 pts he says.....theres no way id ever use an unnamed captain with elves. I cant have fun if I lose because I came in the game planning to lose so to speak. Unless hes doing a scenario where he has Tauriel leading a bunch of Rangers ambushing hunters or spiders but otherwise.....meh.... |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
You say that taking regular captains is "planning to lose". Can't agree with that, you don't have to optimize lists to win |
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| Author: | halauas [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
I think the topic is about picking an elf captain OVER an elf hero. In this case elf captains just dont worth, taking them to fill your army after you have picked your heroes is another matter. And this is only for elf captains, other races/armies are different on this matter, harad/isengard/easterlings/fiefdoms ect ect are completely different regarding captains |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
Well if I can take a captain with 2 might and no special abilities or Thranduil 3/2/2 with aura of dismay and natures wrath, theres a huge difference. And in my mind, if youre not planning a themed battle(keep in mind, im talking about a random skirmish) then youre needlessly putting yourself at a disadvantage tactically. I mean, Im not saying the captains are useless....ive used basic captains before in situations but to me I feel im cheating myself, not just tactically, but fun wise! Im making an army of Thror Right now, and of course I have Thorins company but Three warband leading guys, Thorin, Dwalin, and Balin, with their bands off the top of my head should be around 575 pts.....Im gonna get a Thrain or Thror or both so I can make up to a 750 pt army thats like Battle of Azanulbizar(spelling?) themed with all the love of the movie! I love that stuff man. I just love imagining the heros all in a battle supporting each other doing their own thing. Theyre like different colors in a box of crayons so to speak, and the basic captains unless necessary like Army of the Dead or something, are all so bland to me.....theyre the grays and drab colors. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
halauas wrote: I think the topic is about picking an elf captain OVER an elf hero. In this case elf captains just dont worth, taking them to fill your army after you have picked your heroes is another matter. And this is only for elf captains, other races/armies are different on this matter, harad/isengard/easterlings/fiefdoms ect ect are completely different regarding captains I agree the named heroes are better but you shouldn't sacrifice troops to include them. If you have Thranduil and Leggy with their Warbands and you can either bring a guard captain plus a few troops or Tauriel and no troops, take the captain |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
@LOTBR- I don't disagree that the theme can be quite fun, but when you take the "lesser" captain you bring more troops and therefore add to your potential offensive firepower by having more guys available for more combats. And captains give some versatility as you can choose how to upgrade them. But in this particular case idk why people are downing on the Guard captain. He's the only Mirkwood hero with decent defense! That's hugely important! Lol cuz you don't die then |
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| Author: | DwarfWarrior [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
yeah im not the kind to worry about theme or anything, i just like to play the game. But yeah, thanks, the palace guard captain is the one i was considering because of the defence. And also i find the ranger captain looks to similar to the normal rangers. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
JamesR wrote: @LOTBR- I don't disagree that the theme can be quite fun, but when you take the "lesser" captain you bring more troops and therefore add to your potential offensive firepower by having more guys available for more combats. And captains give some versatility as you can choose how to upgrade them. But in this particular case idk why people are downing on the Guard captain. He's the only Mirkwood hero with decent defense! That's hugely important! Lol cuz you don't die then 1-Yes the versatility is nice, but with these guys....they dont have much at all. But like a Uruk Captain, oh hell yeah. haha. 2-I dont understand the point of the guard captain......for these reasons..... A-Hes what, probably as expensive as Legolas? Idk off hand B-Whos he leading? Palace guard? WAY overpriced....their special rule is next to useless.....unless youre fighting elves, trolls, or run into super powerful heros you dont need them to be fight seven....so unecessary. C-If hes leading Mirkwood Rangers, you might as well make it a named character like Tauriel, Legolas, etc because they can shoot a bow. And what are Rangers for? Not combat.....so unless you get in a shootout the Palace Guard captains D will be null and void the way elves play. Im not like arguing....I just find all the palace guard to be terribly over costed and almost useless....theyre not going to be a good front line to any elf army because all of your elves are not trying to be combat troops... |
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| Author: | WhoelsebutHaldir [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
I think the Guard captain is reasonably pointed and has a decent roll to play in combat. The ability for him to go up to fight 7 could be really useful and may mitigate having to use a might to boost your fight value when fighting another hero. Now the palace guard themselves....well they are certainly overpriced, by 2-3 points. It just doesn't make sense how they are costed. I 100% agree on that. But I still think they have a use in elven armies. For example, they would almost be invaluable in holding objectives with their high defence and shielding capabilities. You could use them in a similar way way that James from GBHL used his Rohan Royal guard. Plop them on the objective while the rest of your army kites around and shoots. A small detachment of them could prove quite useful in most games, though probably only in higher points games (600up). My point being, don't overlook them soo much. Even though they are over priced they still bring something valuable to the table. |
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| Author: | DwarfWarrior [ Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mirkwood captains |
yeah i was thinking bring them around with thanduil the whole time, to protect him and get the bonuses |
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