Does anyone ever try fielding an army with no named heroes ? I know as a general rule the named heroes tend to be superior, but I quite like the idea of using the normal captains more often
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| Author: | WoundedWarsong [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Does anyone ever try fielding an army with no named heroes ? I know as a general rule the named heroes tend to be superior, but I quite like the idea of using the normal captains more often
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| Author: | Galanur [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Yes some armies can go ok without them... named heroes are mainly for rules or extra might points. If you run uruk hai army, you find yourself not so much in the need of those named uruks. They do have their uses like vrasku, or mauhur to some point or even ugluk for soem casual, but generally speaking the same point value uruk hai captain is the brute for melee, if melee you want, then get this bad boy at D7, none of the named guys got this high, so quite a bargain (not to mention hes like 10/15pts cheaper than what he should be) As for Good heroes things get harder though, cause they got plenty heroes for it. Some heroes are quite nice though like: - dwarf/erebor captains with shield - palace guard captains - captains of dol amroth - high elf captains - Galadhrim captains on horse - rivendell knight captains - arnor captains - kings of men to name a few These are generally the prime option although you wont see em out as often as like i said above, 2 many heroes to fill up their role and statistically all their special rules compensates more. |
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| Author: | Coenus Scaldingus [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Harad chieftains/kings would normally appear in my mounted Harad army, but then again, there aren't many named guys available, especially when not taking Nazgûl. Leader still has to be Suladan though. For all those armies where an extra 5 points simply get that extra Might, there really is little reason to get the captains at all (unless playing very large games), although limited equipment options may sometimes make named guys less attractive (as with Isengard or some Rohirrim). |
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| Author: | Seren Nishiyama [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Funny, because in our local games we almost never play with named heroes unless we are playing a pre-written scenario involving them. We use only generic captains for games up to 500 points, and over 500 points we get permission from our opponent before pulling in a named hero. Then again, we follow the original rules instead of warbands... so no 12 model limit per captain. It typically works out to 12 models per captain (human, dwarf, or elf), and 20-25 models per captain for moria goblins. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
I find almost no use in using generic captains. Almost every army has enough named heroes to fill warbands before bringing in random captains.. The only armies I consider them to be useful for are spam armies like goblins, harad, and maybe something like a Mahud King but hes very useful. Otherwise for a named hero you generally have a better stat line, more might, and special rules. Lets compare a few examples....Haldir.... For ten more points you get +1 defense which is not an option for captain, you get 1 might, and you get to shoot twice per turn. Why EVER take a captain? Another....Balin..... For ten more points you get + 1 fight, + 1 courage, +1 might, +2 will, and you get throwing axes, a two handed axe, and the option to take Durins axe..... Even the famous Uruk Captain is good compared to the named heroes, but definitely does not bring as much to your overall army with less might and no special rules like his counterparts have. So for fluff, sure.....you can. For a points match game, especially in a tournament, I will pretty much never use captains. Id like to try a game with only unnamed heroes once though just to see. |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
I play generic capts for fun. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
See the thing with me is....if I have a generic captain instead of Legolas....Im thinking about his lack of 3 arrows the whole game. I think later about the fact that I regret having less might....all that. And then when I have regrets with my forces, I dont have fun. |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
when I played Isengard I took isengard captains cause those are the only captains that can afford D7, remain stats for fighting its the same. I used to take at 500pts Vrasku - shooting goodness and 3 might Mauhur - melee goodness cause of several attacks, just have 2 might though regular fighting captain - hes tougher to kill than any other so if its melee to get em, better just get regular as Ugluk dont have much special skills that benefit melee, Lurtz have bow/shield so he dont get D6 sadly although has 1+ might. Still I found out even for S4 models, D7 its way harder to pierce through and less likely to get picked on shooting , unless its 2 obvious he needs to drop dead or hes alone and got nowhere to hide. |
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| Author: | Asamu [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Every army can do it. It's not very good with some, but in others it's ideal for hording troops, or the basic captains are just as good or better than most of the named heroes in the list. Most evil armies can run without named heroes quite well; it's mostly good that struggles without the named heroes. Isengard - Uruk-hai captains are in many cases better than the named heroes because of the defense. Mordor - Black Guard captains, Black Numenorean Marshals w/shield/horse/lance, Ringwraiths, shaman, and Taskmasters are all great choices, and are comparable to any named options in the list. Moria/Goblin town - cheap heroes to maximize might and model count. Goblin captains have the same amount of might for the points as the fellowship Boromir, but it's more spread, often making it better for heroic actions. Harad - With chiefs you can get ~1 full warband/150pts with 6 watchers and 6 warriors with the karna upgrade; if not going for mass bows, Mahud Kings on camels are good, and taskmasters to boost might Angmar - shaman, shade, mass orcs; vulnerable to compel and such if not careful with moving of the shade, but should be decent Easterlings - They only have 2 named heroes, and while Amdur is good, he is a lot of points for a 2 attack/wound hero, so it might be better to take 2 captains instead for the same points. As far as good, the named heroes are just too good in comparison to the captains unless you are running very specific lists. If you are hording foot Rohan with throwing spears it's probably fine because of the extra bodies. Elves can probably get away with it because of how good their captains are, but they have some of the best named heroes in the game. Dwarves are in the same place as Elves; you could take the generic heroes, but you could upgrade that king to Balin and get the 2h weapon, throwing weapons, and +1 might/will for free; kings champions and shieldbearers are fine in comparison to the named heroes though. Gondor doesn't get discounts for the named heroes, but their captains are only F4 and they have Beregond/Damrod/Denethor as cheap alternatives for massing warriors. Kings are similar to Faramir (same value of stats for points), but you lose the Lance. Fiefdoms captains are good, but again, only F4 is a problem for heroes, and you have Forlong in the list for similar points (less if mounted). |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
As others have said unnamed captains, depending on the faction, have varying degrees of usefulness. I use lots of unnamed Heroes with Moria, I like being able to horde out my Warbands for less than 100 points each. For Dwarves The King's Champion is a named hero, just to clarify the above post. And point for point he's the best unit in the game. |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
In regards to amdur, dont forget he also acts like a banner, in addition he has a chance to remain on his feet when knocked over. |
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| Author: | Zarathustra Suicuine [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
I've found captains of Numenor to be pretty good for their cost, they are let down by their courage though, but their fight means they can relaibely take on evil/non evil heroes, and their heroic strikes have a decent chance of beating most opponents, though I on;y would take one after having taken Isildur or Elendil first. |
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| Author: | Toxic [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
I don't plan on using any named heroes in anything under 500pts. Though I do intend to let Sauron have some fun! |
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| Author: | WoundedWarsong [ Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
I love the Rivendell Knight Captain, but will probably only use him in smaller point games (less than 500 points) 
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Generic Captains (Good & Evil) |
Amdur is an excellent hero, but the generics in that army are also great. The shaman is awesome and so is the Dragon Knight, but of course he can't lead anybody, and the Easterling Captain is the same cost as a Harad Captain, but has more defense, so he's probably the best unnamed heroes in the game. |
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