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Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=32002		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Voyager360 [ Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
Hi all,

So finally I am getting back in this hobby. I'd like to play the campaign from the Lord of the Rings and thought it'd be nice to start with the War of the Last Alliance. I try to follow the scenarios in the Battle Game Magazine, where there is one battle that is a 1000 point match. After trying to come up with army lists I preferred 1250 points as this gives some more infantry (the heroes are really costly).

Anyway, when looking at the profiles I was kind of confused by the difference between Morannon and regular Mordor Orcs... Especially the captains, where for just 5 points more you get an extra S and D. I was planning to take a Captain with Shield, but doesn't this make the regular Mordor Orc Captain obsolete? (unless you really don't have 5 more points to spare)

I'd love to hear your thoughts, I haven't ever played competitively and haven't played for a long long time so maybe it's a bit hard for me to judge. The aim of this campaign isn't to have super competitive armies fighting against each other, I'd prefer to have a nicely balanced match.

By the way, I had the following army lists in mind. Feedback is welcome, I deliberately didn't choose cavalry for either side and again, the plan is to have a fun, nicely balanced and somewhat thematic game:

Good 1250 points
Elrond
Gil-Galad + Shield
High-elf Captain with Shield 1x
High-elf with Bow 11x
High-elf with Shield and Spear 8x (I take 8 here because I only have 8 models)
High-elf with Elvensword 10x
High-elf with Banner 1x
Elendil + Shield
Isildur + Shield
Man of Numenor with Shield 10x
Man of Numenor with Bow 9x
Man of Numenor with Spear and Shield 7x
Man of Numenor with Banner 1x

Total models: 62 (5 heroes)
Archers: 32%
Total might: 14

Evil 1250 points
Sauron + The One Ring
Orc Captain + Shield 2x
Morannon Orc Captain + Shield 1x
Mordor Troll Chieftain 1x
Orc with Bow 12x
Orc with Shield 12x
Orc with Spear 11x
Orc with Two-handed weapon 8x
Orc with Banner 2x
Morannon Orc with Shield 6x
Morannon Orc with Shield and Spear 6x
Mordor Troll 1x

Total models: 63 (5 heroes)
Archers: 19%
Total might: 11
Author:  Voyager360 [ Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
Does anybody have any thoughts about this? I'm really looking forward to playing this game again for the first time in over 2 years. :-D
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
Alright I'll take a crack at it.

First off your right in thinking the Morannon orcs render the regular ones obsolete if you have the points to spare. However from a lore perspective I'd say that a) the stronger strain of orcs don't technically exists since the are an invention of GW to sell a different looking sort of orc b) if they were counted as a real thing then they would only be around during the late third age and, like the Uruk, would not be available to a second age army.

From a game play perspective if you are still using Legions rules for army construction I would consider it pretty good. I don't know exactly it would match up of the field however. You could consider replacing the Morannon orcs with Black Numenorians or something if you'd like a little more variety for the evil guys.
Author:  Asamu [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
Army-wise, they don't really make regular orcs obsolete. using a front line of Morannon orcs with shields with regular orcs for support is quite effective, since vs enemies with odd defense (3/5/7), the regular orcs provide more efficient spear support to inflate model count.

Wan Shi Tong wrote:
Alright I'll take a crack at it.

First off your right in thinking the Morannon orcs render the regular ones obsolete if you have the points to spare. However from a lore perspective I'd say that a) the stronger strain of orcs don't technically exists since the are an invention of GW to sell a different looking sort of orc b) if they were counted as a real thing then they would only be around during the late third age and, like the Uruk, would not be available to a second age army.


By the books, there were many different variations of orcs, ranging from the Snagae (slave orcs that were the bulk of the population), to trackers or "snufflers" (described as small and black skinned in "The Land of Shadow"), to Uruk-hai (The largest and strongest orcs bred specifically for fighting). Seeing as Mordor Uruk-hai and Isengard Uruk-hai were fundamentally different, Morannon Orcs make as much or more sense than Mordor uruk-hai in terms of the game profile.

By the movies, Morannon orcs are canon, and formed the bulk of Mordor's armies during the third age.
Author:  Orcobal [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
I generally build armies taking into account model variety so I do not see the regular orcs outdated. And there are equipment that the Morannon cannot get and "regulars" can, like bows (albeit everybody will use them as trackers, no problem) or two-handed weapons.

I agree that the orcs come in different breeds and the Morannons are well into the believable.. they are just the biggest and baddest of the regulars, and they bothered to equip them with slightly better stuff. :lol:
Is cool that they are only in the Mordor list, and other evil factions have to use the regular ones (barring Isengard and its Uruk-hai)... is very in-character for Sauron having kept the "best" orcs for himself. S4 is big, but we have seen such power creep in other armies too, at least as an option unblocked by a character.

Furthermore, we know Saruman had orcs, uruk-hai but had other half-breed creatures as well, and there is evidence that the uruk-hai were not such hybrids. So it makes sense that Sauron, powerful as he is, managed to find a way to "build" or "select" bigger orcs without going into the Uruk-hai territory.

The Black Guard, that one is a bit too much for me. Great models but is just beyond what I expect an orc, even an uruk-hai, should be able to do.
Author:  Voyager360 [ Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
Thanks for all the responses!

First off I agree that it adds some nice variety and in the case of regular warriors the point cost does matter. Morannon Orcs as a special breed of more powerful orcs does seem very believable to me. (regardless of whether these are actually called Morannon Orcs or not)

I will readjust the list to include some Black Numenoreans, I agree, it would probably make things a little bit more interesting.
I will also try to readjust things so that the Evil player will have more troops (in numbers), I think that would be both more thematic as well as helpful for the Evil player. I might even throw in a Nazgul, but I fear it might spiral out of control a bit if I keep adding points to both sides. :p
Anyway I have enough to think about, so thanks for all your input! :)
Author:  infinateremains [ Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
I think perhaps out numbering the good side is a very thematic thing to do as they are fighting far away from their homes which means their numbers are very exhaustable whereas saurons legions seem to be without number. It's either that or set to a certain number of turns, give the evil player an ability to bring back a random number of dead warriors a turn and set a good side winning objective to achieve.
Author:  CosmicAtoms [ Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
On the question of orc captains vs morannon captains: orc captains can be mounted on wargs while Morannon cannot. This boosts their threat range considerably and I'd argue is much more important than a point of strength. Food for thought.
Author:  Orcobal [ Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Morannon vs Regular Orc and The Last Alliance 1250 pts
CosmicAtoms wrote:
On the question of orc captains vs morannon captains: orc captains can be mounted on wargs while Morannon cannot. This boosts their threat range considerably and I'd argue is much more important than a point of strength. Food for thought.


Before the topic I never realised it consciously but the designers have been clever. Albeit Morannons are what they are, they left a way bigger number of options open to the standard orcs (compared to morannons) to do not leave them in the dust...
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