Ok. Thing is, my dragon is finally painted, and now it wants WAR. I haven't been able to build an army list that would seem honestly competitive. 750 points is good, because bigger gets boring. So, you can comment on the list i put, or you can make totally new list.

*Dragon
-4 morannon orcs, shields
-8 orc warriors

*Taskmaster
-4 morannon orcs, shields
-8 orc warriors, banner

*Orc Shaman
-4 morannon orcs, shields
-8 orc warriors

*Orc captain, shield
-4 morannon orcs, shields
-8 orc warriors

Overall: 52 units, 8 might, 750p

You should buy two additional options for your dragon: Flying and skin of scales (I'm not sure if this is the correct name, my army book is in German), which give him +2 wounds and defense.

I once played him without these options at a tournament and I had to spent all will in the first 3 turns to keep him on the board.

How big were the armies in tournament? And did u have as much "meat shield" as i have right now in this army? Perhaps enemy was kind of special, just made to kill dragon?

I agree that wings seem hugely useful. Dragon would become a mobile predator, hunting down nasty enemies from afar... especially with aid of heroic combat dragon could move up to 56cm. But the cost of dragon is high already, and mass is power!

So, should i keep dragon without wings and 4 full warbands or 3 full warband and dragon with wings? Could i consider instead wings some other ability? Any tips are welcome!

Breathe fire is cool but i doupt it would pay back as will is needed to keep dragon on battleground, unless enemy had ents, balrog or other juicy "one-shot" targets.

Wyrmtongue seems absolutely lovely... So powerful... But...

Scales are of course also good, and would make dragon insane melee monster.

I haven't used my dragon (from Reaper Minis) too often, and when i do, I use it with Moria rather than Mordor.

Your force do looks solid, a frontline of morannons with regular orc spear support is always good. Maybe I'd make it a 6/6 split though, and Tough Hide is mandatory. Fly is usually better than Wyrmtongue.

When it comes to using the dragon, I'd advise you to stay as far way as you can from heroes with a free +1 to wound like Bolg and Gil-Galad. Azog and Aragorn w/ Andúril sometimes show up at this points level and they can easily slay the dragon. Bard with the Windlance is pretty rare, but can easily kill you, however he can't really do anything when fighting melee. Magic will also ruin your day. And your opponent will feint and piercing strike as much as he can, when going two-handed a khazad guard can go up to str 7 and wound you on a 4+, so try not get trapped.

The dragon's main use IMO is that of army killer, and a hunter of non-melee heroes like Legolas, Wrainths, shades, Galadriel and Wizards. However, don't be afraid to send it against the likes of Boromir and Glorfindel, as they will still have a hard time wounding you.

When I use a dragon, first i try to kill any wraiths, shades or wizards on the table, then i go after siege engines and dangerous cavalry like Rivendell Knights or Dol Amroth Knights. After that is done, go after the big heroes that won't wound you easily (no piercing strike and no +1 to wound like boromir). After that, go after the dangerous heroes.

Well I considered all stuff and it seems that... Wings are a must. Otherwise the dragon will be just blocked by cheapest units (think how big its base is). In theory it could troll-compel enemies to walk closer (wyrmtong) but... xD

So, here is the new army list: I made this list with idea of increased mobility. I have been a bit disappointed with the battle effectiveness of normal orcs (with warband rules), so I thought I could straight get these "Better ones". Army might also look more coherent(?). Now, this army can run so fast dragon will need its wings, and enemies will ragequit when their def 3 archers are reached in 4 turns. ^^ Also, I love spiders (visually).

*Dragon, wings
-11 morannon orcs
-1 giant spider

*Orc Taskmaster
-10 morannon orcs
-2 giant spiders

*Orc Drummer
-10 morannon orcs
-2 giant spiders

Overall: 39 units, 5 might, 748-750p.

Lack of shaman's overpowered "give unending courage and fate points to all orcs" spell is a big minus though, do you think I should get shaman instead taskmaster? Taskmaster could aid dragon to do on the other hand free heroic actions!

Hi Salattu, posting.php?mode=reply&f=37&t=32734&sid=1d1c0a4115d8311f9aff995d4b1108bf#

you asked for the point value of my army and wether there was enough meat shelter. I looked it up, the army was 555 points of Moria. I don't remember the kind of my opponents army. A problem was movement 5 of the goblins, which either slowed the dragon or tended to let the sheltering models back behind.

And I'm not a very good player, this may be another reason for my poor success.

Anyway, here is my list - not to be understood as recommended, better try something else:

warband 1: dragon and 6 goblins (2 shield, 2 spear, 2 bow)
warband 2: captain of Gundabad blackshields, drum, 5 goblins (2 shield, 3 spear)
warband 3: goblin shaman, 1 warg marauder, 5 goblins (2 shield, 1 spear, 2 bows)

Not enough goblins, I would say, and the drum is much too expensive.

Good luck to you! I like the dragon model a lot. Maybe you could report of your experiences after having used your army in tournament? I would be interested to read about.

Drums would be good on a pure goblin list, but an upgraded dragon costs as more than 3 full warbands led by regular captains with shields. Also, from my experience, so few goblin archers don't really pose any threat, I'd take either a whole warband or none. A list that i have used with some success at 500 points is:

Warband 1:
Durbûrz, the Goblin King
5 Goblins w/ Shield
5 Goblins w/ Spear
2 Goblin prowlers w/ 2h axe

Warband 2:
Blackshield Captain
6 Blackshields
6 Blackshields w/ spear

Warband 3:
Goblin Shaman
5 Goblins w/ Shield
5 Goblins w/ Spear
1 Warg Marauder or Bat Swarm

Warband 4:
Goblin Captain w/ Shield
11 Goblins w/ bow

50 models; 8 might; 13 bows (2 from the warg marauder). Add a Add a Dragon and you have a good force at 750pts, tough i'd exchange the warband 4 for the upgrades, and the golin king for a blackshield shaman.

Well, does anyone think my newest army is bad? Dragon with wings, 31 morannon orcs, 5 spiders, taskmaster and orc drum? Orcs can march 22cm in one turn. Higher def and attack. Spiders are also fast. Dragon super fast. So, entire army is super fast. And hard-hitting melee force with good def.

I wouldn't say bad. The Drummer is a bit of a waste though, IMO, you have a taskmaster, so a captain would be better. You could call 2+ (average 4) heroic marches with the captain, which is probably as many or more than you would ever be using from the drummer, with a stronger combat profile.

I'd value the defense on the dragon the highest, since you don't have a warhorn. More wounds/defense also means the dragon isn't at risk if it happens to get trapped (because for some reason it can be).

I'd also consider a wraith for some magic to shut down any heroes that might be able to challenge the dragon with support.

Personally, I like Black Numenoreans as the main line with a Dragon, since they have terror to benefit from the -1 courage aura and can take a warhorn to help the courage test. Morannon orcs to support for the str 4 can help against other d6 armies.

Ok new army list. This time i definitely wanted wargs and spiders and ghosts.

*Dragon
-10 wild wargs
-2 giant spiders

*Taskmaster
-7 morannon orcs
-1 giant spider

*Barrow-wight
-12 mordor orc. One orc has only handweapon no cost-item.

*Barrow-wight
-12 mordor orc

Overall: 750 points, 48 units, 5 might + ability.

Please, comment. What would kill this army for certain? Enemy wizard/nazgul? Archers? Cavalry?