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| Avenger Bolt Thrower http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=32987 |
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| Author: | Teacups17 [ Wed May 10, 2017 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Avenger Bolt Thrower |
Is the avenger bolt thrower worth the points? Or are they just better spent on rangers and warriors? (approx. 10 with 3 having bows) I would get an extra crew for moving it and the swift reload option that seems worth it. Thanks |
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| Author: | werennor [ Wed May 10, 2017 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Avenger Bolt Thrower |
I suppose you are writing about the Minas Tirith bolt thrower, right? I played it three times in various tournaments. The last time was in a 700 points match, and I then gave it the reloud option and a captain. Do not expect too much from the bolt thrower. In the beginning of a game you may have the chance of firing it, but more than 3 times would be unusual. And then the problem of hitting. And to fire it, one needs a free shooting range, which has to include enough space for aberrations of 3". And the potential multiple hits request enough targets near the original target, which isn't always so. In one game I played the bolt thrower had an psychological effect on my opponent. Trying to avoid being in sight of the bolt thrower his troops were hindered in their movements, so I got an advantage over him although not firing my bolt thrower. But that was a special case. My experience from the last tournament, whre i used a bolt thrower: Adding a captain to the crew was not worth the points, it did not increase the number of hits in an according manner compared to the cost of this option. But an additional crew member is helpful, because the player then can move the bolt thrower with full speed, if necessary, and he can fire it wiithout a malus even after one crew member has been killed. Another advantage is shooting against monsters. Where arrows don't wound in most cases, it's another thing with a bolt thrower. And one last thought: I like the look of this model. And firing it is always an interesting action in a game. So, in my opinion, I would take one in a game of 500 points or more, but only with an additional crew member and without the reload option. |
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| Author: | Ring_of_Gyges [ Wed May 10, 2017 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Avenger Bolt Thrower |
I've used it, you don't consistently get to fire it many times in a game. It is much shootier than an equal number of points of warriors, but once the forces clash it is an expensive quasi-immobile blob. 3.5 shots on average is around 1.75 hits is around 1 kill (assuming defense 6 or less). Once the forces clash, you've still got two Warriors of Minas Tirith who can fight, but even if we discount the bolt thrower's cost to account for that, it needs to kill around 56pts worth of enemy models to justify itself. Can it? Well, suppose you're shooting at expensive Uruk Hai, can you shoot 5 or 6 times before the lines clash? Probably not. Suppose you're shooting at cheap Moria Goblins, can you shoot 11 or 12 times before the lines clash? Almost certainly not. If the enemy starts 25" away, close to 19" (shoot once), close to 13" (shoot twice), close to 7" (shoot a third time), then they're probably in combat. In the normal run of things I think they're too expensive. I'd take the rangers, they don't shoot nearly as well, but once the lines clash they can fight. |
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| Author: | Teacups17 [ Fri May 12, 2017 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Avenger Bolt Thrower |
Yes I meant the one from Minas Tirith. Interesting points, but even if the scenario does allow a maximum number of turns shooting then it still probably is not worth it looking at your maths. Plus some scenarios might mean you get less chances to fire. I think the psychological effect like werennor said could be important, but I expect most players would not worry much as it lacks the instant kill and still scatters. Again this is probably why a captain is not worth it. The one positive I can see is that it doesn't count towards your bow limit so if you wanted to maximise shooting this would help, but I think I will stick with rangers. Out of interest, can a captain assigned to a siege engine lead a warband? |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Sat May 13, 2017 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Avenger Bolt Thrower |
Teacups17 wrote: Out of interest, can a captain assigned to a siege engine lead a warband? If the siege engine has a captain, he has to lead the warband that includes the siege itself. That being said, I'm not a fan of the Bolt Thrower. It's too random and becomes useless when the battle starts: while archers can still try to aim at support, the Bolt can't because the friendly unit is too close. Now, in a scenario like Reconnoitre, where you can just sit and shoot, it could be devastating, wounding D6 at 4+, but most scenarios force to deploy close to the opponent, giving it 2 or 3 turns of shooting at most. |
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| Author: | Reto [ Mon May 15, 2017 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Avenger Bolt Thrower |
I like the profile and it has it use in a siege. But as mentioned above in a normal battle it loses its purpose once combat begins. So I would suggest spending the points on more troops. |
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