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| Isengard beginnings http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=34508 |
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| Author: | Forester [ Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Isengard beginnings |
Hello fellow enthusiasts, I'm just getting started with this game and I would like to ask your opinion on what to get first for my Isengard force. My plan was to buy a box of Uruk Hai Scouts lead by Lurtz, Mauhur and Vrasku. Lurtz would lead the Sword + Shield uruks, Mauhur the ones without shield and Vrasku the archers. Next, I was thinking about a drummer to make them even more mobile. Would you recommend an uruk hai drummer or rather the Isengard troll drummer instead? From here I'm a bit stumped as to what would complement this force best. I like the look and idea of Uruk Warriors with Shields and some Pikes interspersed, but Warg Riders could add even more mobility to the list and fit the hunting theme better. Any ideas and comments are highly appreciated! |
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| Author: | Alex123 [ Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
This sounds like a good start to an army. Lurtz, Mauhur and Vrasku are all good models, and the scouts are an affordable start to an army. If you are looking to play at a typical tournament level of 700 points or so, you would probably need two boxes of plastic scouts, giving you 48 models. One box of 24 scouts plus the leaders would probably be OK to play at 400 points level. If you buy Lurtz new from Games Workshop you'll get him with Ugluk as well. That would then enable you to play either a normal Isengard army (from the Armies of Lord of the Rings) or the Ugluk's scouts legendary legion (from War in Rohan) or Lurtz's scouts from the Quest of the Ringbearer book. The best buy tactically would be the scout command pack, because you can use the scout drummer in the legendary legions, but not the troll drummer. This would also give you a banner, and a shaman, which will be a good boost to the troops. Ideally you could swap for the armoured shaman from the Uruk warrior command pack, if you are playing very competitively, but you should probably hide the shaman in the middle of the troops anyway. After that if you wanted to build out Ugluk's scouts you could get some Mordor orcs. Or just collect whatever you want for Isengard. If you're not going for the legendary legions, but just plain Isengard, then you can use a troll drummer and he can work with orcs and warg riders as well as uruk hai. And you can get Saruman too! |
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| Author: | Forester [ Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Alex123 wrote: If you're not going for the legendary legions, but just plain Isengard, then you can use a troll drummer and he can work with orcs and warg riders as well as uruk hai. And you can get Saruman too! Thanks for commenting! This here is probably how I'm going to do do it. The Legendary Legions look nice thematically, but they are too restrictive for my taste (even though I like the thought of Ugluk cutting down Mordor Orcs to keep morale up). I guess allying in Mordor as a yellow alliance is not too great, as I would lose both faction abilities, right? Saruman and Grima will give the whole thing a bit more variety and I really like the new plastic release for them. I'm also pretty much set on Sharku and Warg Riders for mobility and style. |
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| Author: | Forester [ Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
After a bit of fiddling with the army builder, I managed to compile a 700 points list with most of the things I'd like to field: Warband 1 1/18 Saruman with Horse Gríma Wormtongue These seem to be a must-pick for a thematic Isengard force. They both have nice tools to impair/take out key enemy models with Sorcerous Blast, Immobilise and Grima's abilities, which should come in handy. ---- Warband 2 11/15 Lurtz with Shield 3 Uruk-hai Scout with Shield 1 Uruk-hai Scout with Shield & Banner 2 Uruk-hai Berserker 1 Isengard Troll with War drum 2 Warg Rider with Shield & Throwing spears 2 Crebain This will be the main blob of my force. Uruk Scouts with Shields escort Lurtz and the banner helps in combat, while the Berserkers add some nice punch into the mix. The Troll drummer is a heavy hitter, arrow magnet and movement buff all in one. The drum will propel the whole block and possibly even mounted Saruman forward to get a good angle for a sorcerous blast. With the troll, Lurtz and Saruman running around, I'm hoping to give my opponent a difficult choice who to focus their efforts on. 2 Warg riders and 2 Crebain are mostly there for thematic reasons, but they synergise nicely with the troll drummer, becoming incredibly mobile as a result, moving 15" and 17" respectively. This way, I'm hoping to use them as flanking pieces to trap enemy models or knock them prone with the wargs. Crebain can also reveal enemy stalkers for my ranged warband to shoot at. ---- Warband 3 4/12 Vraskû 4 Uruk-hai Scout with Uruk-hai bow A small ranged contingent to clear things from a distance. Vrasku looks the main danger here and can dish out some nice damage with two 24" shots on 3+ at S4. The Scout Archers will provide a meatshield and may kill a few units here and there with their arrows or move in on a flanking maneuver, supporting the big block. ---- Total Units: 19 Points 698 Any advice would be highly appreciated! |
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| Author: | Alex123 [ Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
I like the normal Isengard force too, as Saruman is a great pick. The 18 inch immobilize with a horse moving 10 inch gives a huge threat range. And the re-rolls make the sorcerous blast a 75% chance of success on just one will point. I just realized that I'm not sure if the Isengard troll drummer works with warg riders. The scout drummer works on keyword "Isengard uruk hai", while the troll drummer works on keyword "Isengard". So the troll drummer works on Saruman, Grima, all uruk-hai, Sharku and other Isengard trolls. But he might not work on Dunlendings, orcs or warg riders, unless they can gain the keyword somehow, or there's an FAQ. .................. ps. It looks like a fun list of models to collect, which is the most important thing. If you were going really competitive at tournaments I suspect 19 bodies is too few for 700 points. It's tough to get enough board control to cover all the objectives etc. (That's what I found when I was taking hero-packed elf lists with only 20-something models anyway!) |
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| Author: | Forester [ Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Yup, you're right. Crebain and Warg Riders don't have the Isengard keyword, if they haven't been FAQd. In this case, I might skip the Warg riders and add a few more Uruk Scouts instead to bulk up the core warband. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
I was in the middle of writing a long thing and getting into hypothetical tactics but then I accidentally turned my computer off. My power bar is really sensitive and flicks off too easily... Anyway, if you want to use Uruk-Hai Scouts and not have spear/pike support, that's totally fine, but you'd need numbers. My recommendation if you want to jump straight into the 700 points level is to get two boxes of Scouts and gradually build on that. Whichever heroes you want will work, Isengard has really solid heroes. At the 700 points region, you probably won't have more than 3 warbands, so you wouldn't need to get all the heroes at once. Just so we can figure out which heroes would suit your style first, from what you're describing it sounds like you want a mobile army, is that fair to say? |
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| Author: | Forester [ Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Thanks for taking the time! Yeah, I've got the new Saruman/Grima and a box of Uruk Scouts on the way, they should arrive today, so they are pretty much set. Same goes for two Crebain, who should arrive later this week. Mobility seems a reasonable theme to follow with Isengard, so let's go with that. I guess Mauhur would be a great fit to lead those scouts then, right? |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Absolutely, Mauhur would be a great fit. I consider him a Scout army's biggest weapon. If you're playing without spears and pikes, you need another way to stack the odds in your favour. Ultimately, that's what this or any other dice game is about: stacking the odds in your favour. Spears allow you to roll additional dice, so the question I would ask if we're foregoing them is: where are the extra dice coming from now? My no-spear experience is with Durin's Folk, I like how long and durable a line of Dwarves can get, they can wrap around your opponent's lines and flank quite easily. Flanking means you take away spear support AND you trap enemy models, which shifts the odds back in your no-spear favour. I was doing some math a few months ago and realized how important banners are as well, they give you a boost, and that boost grows the fewer dice you're rolling: a pikeblock gets a mild boost, a spear-supported model gets a big boost, and a single model gets a HUGE boost. Uruk-Hai Scouts aren't as durable as Dwarves, but they're faster. Much faster if you have Mauhur and/or a drum. So if I'm advising you on what to buy, my recommendation in order of importance would be: 1) Second box of Scouts 2) Mauhur. If you're buying new from GW, you get Vrasku as well and can already build a very capable 700 point army 3) Uruk-Hai Scout Command Pack. For the Banner and Drummer A great thing about Mauhur and Vrasku is they both have Heroic March. Your army is moving 11" and 9" respectively in one turn. Without adding anything else, you're already building the Sprinty Uruk Boi strategy. Drum and Heroic March can stack, which means Mauhur's Marauders can move 14" in one turn, but you can build a solid army using just Mauhur and Vrasku. I say solid, there's still a learning curve. Isengard is known for being a very beginner-friendly army because the pike-block doesn't take much to get good at. You have reasonably priced Warriors with high Strength, Defence and Fight Value, and their pike block will beat most things head-on. However, you're choosing a much more tactical army to learn with. Scouts die easier and depend heavily on good positioning, whereas Uruk Warriors just need you to point them in the right direction. This will make you a much better player in the long run, but just be aware that it's not an easy army to start with. I think it's a much more fun army than the pike-block because of the added layer of tactical nuance it requires, so there's that. |
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| Author: | Forester [ Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Thanks for the advice! I'm not excluding pikes per se, but I really like the scout models and a more tactical/involved playstyle is something I really enjoy in wargames. How about this then: Warband 1 5/18 Saruman with Horse Gríma Wormtongue Uruk-hai Drummer 3 Warg Rider with Shield; Throwing spears; 2 Crebain ---- Warband 2 12/12 Mauhúr 1 Uruk-hai Marauder with Banner; Shield; 8 Uruk-hai Marauder with Shield; 3 Uruk-hai Marauder ---- Warband 3 12/12 Vraskû 8 Uruk-hai Scout with Uruk-hai bow; 4 Uruk-hai Scout ---- ---- Units: 34 Points: 700 |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
Fair enough. I always say the best army is the one you want to play. Personally I would load up on as many Scouts as I can in Warband 1. I can see the value of Warg Riders and Crebain, they help with the whole idea of getting in behind enemy lines. My preference would be to max out on Scouts, but if you already have the Crebain and Riders on the way, they can do the job as well. |
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| Author: | Joken [ Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
I really love the idea of an Isengard Uruk Hai scout force striking through the folds of Rohan on missions directed by Othanc. I have been wondering about adding a troll. The Isengard 110 pt load-out is typically armour, Sword & shield but this seems out of keeping with a fast moving raiding party. The Cave Troll seems like a better fit but doesn’t have the key word Isengard. What would be a fair increase to include the Isengard keyword for club play, 10pts? |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
If we're talking about theme, I would argue that a Cave Troll doesn't fit. The Uruk-Hai scouts did a lot of running by daylight where a Cave Troll would turn to stone. |
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| Author: | Forester [ Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Isengard beginnings |
The Isengard troll also has some decent synergy with your force, if you pick the drummer loadout. This would also fit the hunting party theme pretty well. |
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