Who will survive better?

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:19 pm

Without specifics what do you guys feel is more survivable?

A model with Fight 5, Defense 7, 3 Wounds, and 3 Fate

or

A model with Fight 7, Defense 8, 3 Wounds, 1 Fate?

Low points cost match under 500.

Valadorn · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:39 pm

If it was for more points I would definitely say the second, but in <500 F5 is fine. Also in D7 + it's more or less the same, he shoulld first roll a 6 (except troll but even this is difficult abit in <500). So the two fates are great here and I would go for the first in that point range.

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:54 pm

Thats what I felt. Just wanted unbiased opinions. Thanks.

Glory4gondor · **Joined:** Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:57 pm **Posts:** 137

Number 2 Gil-Galad all day!

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:56 am

Depends on the army you're facing. With a lot of S4, the first would be better, with mostly S3, the second would probably be better.

jericho2597 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:12 am

Against armies with s3, such as all kingdoms of men and mordor etc, the second one is better as they need 6/4 to wound instead of 6 on the first profile. Also armies with S3 can be more likely to have F6 heroes than armies with S4 in my opinion. Which also means F7 is more valuable.

Arthas367 · **Joined:** Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:27 am **Posts:** 158

Well f7 and d8 I'm not sure exists on anyone

Considering Gil is f9 but does have the d8 and 1 fate
though Glorfindel is d7, I think your trying to obfuscate us here.

And second one immediately strikes me as Eomer Kop, as their is barely any/ next to no F5 guys who pack 3 wounds let alone 3 fate

Also why not tell us who? As raw stats mean little without the whole picture. We can't properly help with such knowledge, besides personal opinion fate v 1 point of D, cost plays a big role aswell, cause if d7 guy is far cheaper, does the extras make up for lost point of D with sheer bodies

LordElrond · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:06 am

Well the first one is Eomer KotP, and the second is Elendil. Elendil should do much better. That D8 means 6/4 or 6/5 from all shooting except bars and xbows. On top of that, elendil's heroic combats mean that if you play him well, the enemy will never be able to trap and surround him if you do wish. But then he is 50 points more, so you do pay for what you get.

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:43 am

Guys guys guys......these ARE models. Im just asking an opinion not like...a debate. These are two models.

Hah so all Im asking is which do you think is more likely to survive a battle with those stats. Im planning something for an upcoming tournament AGAINST several members of this website....

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:07 pm

Let's say a fight lost against 1 opponent.
At s3 then you roll sixes to wound, which means, on average, 27 fights to kill Model One.
Model Two, being a 6/4 roll to wound, means that it will take 54 fights to kill Model Two.

At s4 then they're both sixes, so obviously Model One with three Fate survives 6 turns longer than Model Two (21 vs 27 turns). However, that's not measuring the better winning chance of Model Two against Heroes and Elves, as well as Might saved from Heroic Strikes and Heroic Combats. Model Two seems an overall better bet.

LordoftheBrownRing · **Posted:** Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:24 pm

I definitely will NOT be fighting elves. Ill be winning most battles on fight value I can say. I didnt know that before but I do now as well.

Badner · **Joined:** Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:04 pm **Posts:** 296

I would prefere the D8 miniature. Appart from the maths, I do also think that F7 and D8 does save you some M-points, which can be used if you fail your F-roll.

Galanur · **Joined:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:28 am **Posts:** 1389

Bettewn Eomer KoP and Elendil lets see...

You cannot forget the special rules and you should had told us, they are relevant you know :P
The special rules shape the character and therefore shape the army you take em in.

IF you wanna choose bettewn both in lower point game I would prob choose Eomer cause of the S5 on the charge (either on foot and mounted) his stats represents a well balanced and quite tough heroe to take down.

Elendil is a bit more tricky, he got 1 fate I grant you but getting a D8 for a man race aint be seen all days, algo he got a quite high fight value meaning if you wanna play for tie up he can save his precious might points and let others burn the might to try to get to his lvl.
Also with Elendil youre safer to fight things like mordor trolls although Elendil will get into troubles if the troll win and rent him.

Ultimately despite Eomer have S5 on the charge, ELendil model gain 1 BIG advantage. He dont have to burn might to call heroic combats and that can mean alot if you position the fights where most of your models participate on elendil combat allowing a portion of those soldiers to move "twice" in a fight phase and eventually fight "twice" a round. That by itself can be pretty epic. Also means when outnumbered for like pesky goblins, elendil got twice the chances to wipe out a good number and keep the horde advantage timer at its end sooner as youre likely to kill around 4/5 goblins a turn without much sweat. If you take on horse to compete for the same variation as Eomer, hes gonna kill twice as much. As eomer can´t kill a full warband forever spending might points heroic combat, while Elendil can.

Who will survive more?
Elendil saves up might for other stuff while heroes need to put some efford to it to match him.
Eomer might survive more if you roll well on fate points.

For example a Mordor troll can rent either but the troll will less likely kill eomer this way as with 3 fate poiints eomer is likely to stay alive with 1 or 2 wounds.
Elendil same way will die or survive with 1 wound. Still Elendil got way more chances to stomp a troll back than Eomer.

Vs infantry S 4 trapping both.
Eomer can get 3 Fate to survive more as both get wounded at same result.

Vs infantry S3 trapping both
Elendil got way more chances to come out alive.

Vs elven shooting
Elendil got substancially more chances to survive

Vs human/orc shooting
Eomer its quite hard to kill (same rate as elves need to wound elendil)
Elendil is almost virtually extremely hard to get wounded.

Vs S5 user trapping both
Eomer its substancially easy to wound, although with 3 fate can be almost count as having D8, still this is a gamble and can go wrong.
Elendil its still hard to wound and got a good chance to avoid a wound.

At most cases heroic will be very likely to need to use might points to wound elendil while in some cases Eomer is not necessary to burn up might for it.

If youre fighting Uruks:

I would suggest elendil as the uruk captains still got a serious issue to spend might to try to beat elendil fight value + still needing 6s to wound that guy.
Eomer still need to gamble might points to best the uruk and if charged the uruk got better chances to wound eomer although will take a long while to burn 3 fate.

Vs Mumakill trample: (3A)

Eomer can potencially survive with 1 wound left or completly dead.
Elendil at standart will get 1/2 wound suffered from it and still with fate point to use.

Dikey · **Joined:** Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:19 am **Posts:** 508

a hero with F7 will top most enemies and fight on par with the most tough, keeping his might where a hero with F5 would be forced to call a heroic strike.

D8 is extremely good against archery. Elves needs 6/4 and every other thing needs 6/5. However, is all the same against crossbows.

I'd say "take the F7" but, as you already know, special rules may make the F5 models better.

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