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Newbie question - two-handed weapons
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=32504		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SB_Runner [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:31 am ]
Post subject:  Newbie question - two-handed weapons
Hello all,

I have a newbie question. I have just gotten back into LotR SBG/Hobbit after many years only collecting models of which I have amassed a pretty respectable collection.

I am using the most current rules presented in the Hobbit book.

Can models using a two-handed weapon still use the special strikes provided by the type of weapon?

For example: can Gandalf in a pose wielding a staff 2-handed use it both as a two-handed weapon and as staff thus using the Stun special strike?

Can Elendil whom is wielding a sword two-handed in his pose use his sword as a two-handed weapon as well as using the Feint special strike?

Can a model holding a spear in two hands without a shield use a spear as a two-handed weapon and also use the Spear rules?

Can a model with a throwing spear use a spear in combat, does it use the spear rule as well?

I know it is a lot of questions, but as I said I am a newbie.
Author:  Dikey [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
I will answer in order

1)yes. A model using a 2 handed weapon can use his weapon's special strike.

2) no. A model pose is irrelevant. To use a weapon as 2handed, said weapon has to be identified in the model's equipment as a 2 handed.

3)no. A spear is a spear. Again, a model's pose is irrelevant. A spear does not benefit from 2hw rules.

4) throwing spears cannot be used as spears. They cannot be used to support. I could be wrong, but no model has both spears and throwing spears
Author:  Commissariat [ Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
Me rambling about throwing spears being unable to support and Riders not having lances as an option despite the film/book saying otherwise...
Click to: Show
Whether or not it is correct rules-wise, I find the "Throwing spears cannot be used as spear support" to be quite silly when looking at the two throwing spear model types in the game. The Rohan spears are far larger than wood elf spears and look far sturdier than spears of Minas Tirith. Warg Rider throwing spears are, while not as sturdy, are orc weapons of the same size as spears of Minas Tirith. So that, and that the word "spear" is in the name of the weapon, it makes me cry-frown-sad that they cannot be used to support.

Throwing Axes typically double as hand-axes for most players so they grant piercing strike. The trick that allows Iron Guard to choose between sword or axe for their special attack.

Sure the rulebook says Throwing Spears follow the rules for throwing weapons, but have an increased range of 8", but they are also a spear.

The counter argument is "throwing spears are not meant to take the punishment of melee fighting and are designed for throwing", but look at the Riders of Rohan in the book, film, and GW conversions (Big Blue Book). They are using their spears as lances more often than throwing weapons. They only throw their spears at the battle of the Pelennor, yes they might be using actual throwing spears, but why wouldn't GW have Rohan using spears as they were dominantly used? Why does harad steal the Rohirrim's utility-spear? #MakeRohanGreatAgain

Disclaimer: I am fine with throwing spears being strictly better throwing weapons, but after getting rohan models this has become my little joke.

To be fair, as I derail this thread even more, if Throwing Spears were buffed to support (and maybe count as lances from horseback but that is stretching it, maybe offer the upgrade of lances to riders of rohan) then Rohan infantry would be a bit nicer.


Anyways, Dikey speaks truthfully unless I am sourly mistaken.
Author:  SB_Runner [ Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
Dikey wrote:
I will answer in order

1)yes. A model using a 2 handed weapon can use his weapon's special strike.

2) no. A model pose is irrelevant. To use a weapon as 2handed, said weapon has to be identified in the model's equipment as a 2 handed.

3)no. A spear is a spear. Again, a model's pose is irrelevant. A spear does not benefit from 2hw rules.

4) throwing spears cannot be used as spears. They cannot be used to support. I could be wrong, but no model has both spears and throwing spears


Thanks Dikey! Very helpful, Cheers!

Your answers make perfect sense, but if it is not too taxing, I have a couple of follow up questions:

The profiles in the sourcebooks, the Staves of Power wielded by Gandalf, Saruman etc. are described as being two-handed, yet in the Hobbit rulebook, they are listed simply as Staves of Power. Too add a little to the confusion, under the entry on two-handed weapons in the Hobbit book, a picture of Gandalf holding a staff in one hand is shown specifically as one of four models with two-handed weapons.

Regarding specific poses, I guess as you say the profile description trumps the pose, but I am assuming the model still has to have the weapon to match the profile even if it strapped to their back, in a scabbard etc.

Thanks again for the help. As I mentioned, I am just beginning assembling, storing and sorting through all my miniatures while attempting to match them with their relevant profiles.
Author:  Dikey [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
The staff of power still counts as 2 handed weapon, or at least that's how I play and how I've seen it playing. Now that I think about it, almost every gandalf model ever made wields the staff with one hand, which is kinda funny, but irrelevant. Even a staff-less Gandalf will count as having the stuff of power because the rules say so.

Regarding the equipment, a model has all of what is written, even if he does not show some of it. For example, woodelf sentinels have bows, yet one of the pose has not one sculpted on it. It does not matter. The same could be said of the Lurtz without shield: It still count as equipped. Of course, that's the rule for mandatory equipment; optional equip should (ideally) be shown.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
I thought a "hunting spear" special weapon would be a good addition to the game. A hunting spear could be used as both a throwing spear and a regular spear, much like the war spear can be used as a lance while mounted and a spear while on foot.
Author:  Spike117 [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
I have played Rohan w/ counting the spears as both throwing and support and it makes the warriors more versatile and reliable for sure, considering that they aren't the strongest.
Author:  Dikey [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
Spike117 wrote:
I have played Rohan w/ counting the spears as both throwing and support and it makes the warriors more versatile and reliable for sure, considering that they aren't the strongest.

I Too played with similar rules. However, those are house rules, while the object of this topic is the rule itself, which does not allow supporting from throwing spears.
Author:  Spike117 [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
Dikey wrote:
Spike117 wrote:
I have played Rohan w/ counting the spears as both throwing and support and it makes the warriors more versatile and reliable for sure, considering that they aren't the strongest.

I Too played with similar rules. However, those are house rules, while the object of this topic is the rule itself, which does not allow supporting from throwing spears.


Yeah, I know. I just wanted to weigh in on my experience changing the rules like that
Author:  Kelthrai [ Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Newbie question - two-handed weapons
The Wizard models with staffs are simply carrying them, or else using them as walking sticks. From real-world experience, there is absolutely way that you can fight with a staff in one hand. In-game, you can choose to fight two-handed with the staff, or one-handed with another weapon they're assumed to have on their person (although, in my opinion, Gandalf should *always* fight with Glamdring).

Regarding throwing spears: from a rules standpoint, they can't be used as a normal spear, ie to lend supporting attacks. Considering the Rohirrim's place in the lore, this is absolutely ridiculous. They're Saxons on a horse. When dismounted, they fight in shieldwall, where the main weapon was, wait for it... the spear! Again, from real world experience, swords and axes are only truly useful when fighting on the flanks of a shieldwall, and they are distinctly less useful in the press of the middle of the lines.
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