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 Post subject: Rohan Riders
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 2:57 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Hi all, I'm sure someone asked it before, but since I also have another question I'll ask it again (sorry).
As you can see at the title it's about Rohan riders, my question is about their bows..
So.. A Rohan rider carries a bow in his equipement, right? (except those who hold them) but.. If you have the bow limit of 33% does these who carry it on their back count aswell? Since if they lost their horse they have to drop either the shield or the bow, so then what about the bow limit if they carry the shield?
Same for rangers of Arnor, even though I'm not sure if they carry a bow or they cost an extra point.. Don't have the rulebook now..
And are heroes included in the 33% limit?

Another question I'm not sure about is Rohan infantry:
They can have a throwing spear, but does that mean for ALL of the minis or just those holding a spear? If only those with spear, can they still support even when you don't geve them throwing spears? So that they just have a spear wich they can't throw?

Please reply, I'm a little confused :s
Maybe it's a stupid question.. But please tell me (:

Jorn.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:56 pm 
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i'm affraid i can't answer your first question

Heros do not count towards the 33% limit according to the rules in LoME

The warriors or Rohan don't have the wargear option for a normal spear, so they cannot support friends in combat. they are only to be used for throwing.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Yep, it's all been asked before :) but that's going to happen until nobody new wants to play this game, so welcome aboard and ask away...

Last question first...normally people play "what you see is what you get" (WYSIWYG), which avoids confusion. So those models with throwing spears would have them, and those that don't, don't. However, in a friendly game there's nothing wrong with saying all your infantry have them, or "all the guys with blue shields" or whatever. The point is you should make any non-WYSIWYG models obvious to your opponent.

In the rules for throwing weapons you'll see you can't use throwing spears as normal support spears, and a normal spear is not an option in a Rohan warrior's equipment list. Besides, it would just add to the confusion given the WYSIWYG issue above.

As for bow limit: it's 33% of warriors, heroes are not included. Riders and Rangers are the only models that have an issue with this, as they all come with bows as part of their standard equipment. With Riders the custom is to only allow those models posed as shooting to be able to use their bows, and to have the option of keeping them if they are dismounted.

With Rangers of Gondor or Arnor you can use the same method, but if you're playing Grey Company you have another option: if you take one Ranger of the North or Dunedain (minor heroes) per 4 Rangers of Arnor, then all your models can use their bows. It's effectively a 100% bow limit, but you take a bit of a numbers hit because you have to buy a minor hero to lead each squad of 4.

Hope that helps.
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 5:49 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Hi thanks for the quick reply! :D

I never knew Rohirrim couldn't use their spear for support.. that's stupid :(
Anyway, thanks for telling, it's all clear now :D
So, just have to remember WYSIWYG? xD
allright (:

Thanks! :D
Jorn.

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 7:09 pm 
Elven Warrior
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To be fair, it would have to be a long spear to work across two horses. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:18 pm 
Loremaster
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wow some good info there man, I never thought of that either. Well I'm happy I've learnt more (there's always something more to learn)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:05 pm 
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whafrog wrote:
With Riders the custom is to only allow those models posed as shooting to be able to use their bows, and to have the option of keeping them if they are dismounted.

Or field other warriors which don't have bows so that all your riders can have bows, that way you don't waste one point per rider that can't use his bow.
When a rider dismounts couldn't he keep the shield and loose the defence? I know the rules say that he must discard one or the other but the rules for war gear say that you can have a bow and shield, even though you don't get the extra defence you can still shield which could be very helpful for a dismounted rider.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:06 pm 
Ringwraith
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Quote:
Or field other warriors which don't have bows so that all your riders can have bows, that way you don't waste one point per rider that can't use his bow.


Yep, I'm partial to that combo myself, eg: 12 riders, 12 warriors w/ shield, 12 warriors w/ shield + throwing spear.

Dwarf Lord of Ered Luin wrote:
When a rider dismounts couldn't he keep the shield and loose the defence? I know the rules say that he must discard one or the other but the rules for war gear say that you can have a bow and shield, even though you don't get the extra defence you can still shield which could be very helpful for a dismounted rider.


The specific rule for the rider trumps the general rule for wargear, so he has to choose. Except if you're using the bow limit on the rider, those not posed as shooting are not considered to have bows to choose from.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:55 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Thanks for all the info!

But last night I remembered a battle on a tournament (in a shop, not a real GW one) and I used Rohan and they could support.. :s it was one of my first battles and so I learned that Rohan could support
So, did we played it wrong that battle?
Maybe that's why I thought they could support..
Ah well, thanks for telling, atleast now I know it! :D


Such a nice bunch of people here.. :D
Jorn.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:14 pm 
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Yeah, throwing spears cannot support. It's a stupid rule. I remember for RotK, throwing weapons could be used as normal ones - ie throwing spears could be used for spears, throwing axes for axes. I guess GW wanted to limit the power of thrown weapons, as they also did increase their points cost. Me and my friends still use the above RotK rule for throwing weapons. Makes more sense that way.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:51 am 
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In reality any spear you can effectively throw that far, on target and with penetrating power is going to be more "javelin" or other light-weight style. A spear you can support with has to be heavy and long enough to reach past other combatants enough to threaten a foe. Although there may be times when one can fill the role of the other I think you'd be hard pressed to find regular examples from history.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:21 am 
Elven Warrior
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Allright, so.. no supporting for Rohan or any other army who can oly have throwing spears? Got it (:
Even though it's a little silly 'cause the size of the Rohirrim spear is almost equal to the ones of Gondor.. :S
But still thank you everyone for explaining :D

Kind regards,
Jorn.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:50 am 
Loremaster
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Modeling anything much smaller would probably result in a LOT of broken models (most spear models do already suffer from this even at their current size :sad: ).

To make it even more "WTH?", take a look at the spears that Warg Riders are packing. Again, there is no way these would make viable throwing weapons in most cases, but the models look good and since there are no support spear options with Warg Riders it doesn't create any confusion. And because they are so large you're not forced to use them as Throwing Spears. They can just be more 1H weapon + shield units.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:30 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Yes that's correct I guess..
Still it's a stupid rule xD
But allright, from now on, no more supporting with Rohan. (:

Jorn.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:12 pm 
Ringwraith
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Eaothen-the-brave wrote:
Still it's a stupid rule xD


As has already been pointed out to you, there is no historical precedent for allowing it, so I'm not sure why you think it's a stupid rule.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:51 pm 
Elven Warrior
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whafrog wrote:
Eaothen-the-brave wrote:
Still it's a stupid rule xD


As has already been pointed out to you, there is no historical precedent for allowing it, so I'm not sure why you think it's a stupid rule.

Yes.. that's correct, I'm sorry :oops:
I just mean that it isen't so pretty that Rohan can't support.. But yes, if we watch at the history then it's a correct rule, just too bad for Rohan.. :roll:

Jorn.

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