The Castellans don't have the option for Morgul Blades in LoME, only in the FotN sourcebook. It states in LoME that models are restricted to the equipment choices in their LoME list...



Not that I take anything printed in LoME without a healthy pinch of salt.

_________________
Studio gaarew; Gaming armies, by gamers, for gamers.

I think that is a typo, i dunno tho...

If i've got 6 captains, I can use stand fast over all the battlefield.
If I use durburz the stand fast is only 28 cm, wich will mean my army should be all around him and then I can't use my swarming to surround them.
The only units that are not in range of the captains stand fast! ar the spiders, but they are dead before 37 units(!) died, because they are in the front of my army. I have durburz in my 1000 point army, just like the spider queen. The shamans was where I already thought about.
Oh, btw, this should be in army help so I'll post the topic over there again!

_________________
I love Goblins and I love strategy, so I'm TheGoblinTacticus

If I'm not using correct English, I'm really sorry but I'm Dutch

Look at it this way, Durburz and a shaman are 6" away from eachother so together they get an automatic 18" standfast, each goblin captain is courage 3, so it flees on anything below 7, it is 50% likely to get 7 or below so by the laws of probability, 2-3 of your captains should flee, fair enough they have enough might and will to boost their rolls into passes but what happens next turn? Once your captains are gone your goblins will flee on anything below an 8, with shaman and durburz combo you get an instant standfast until the shaman is killed, even then durburz is courage 4 and has 3 might and 2 will to boost his scores.

Also why take 6 goblin captains at 500-750 points, at 500 you could have your 6 captains, which equal 240 points, then you have to ally in an orc captain too, your on 285 points now, then you take your 4 giant spiders from dol guldor, your on 385 points now, then you take your goblins, you can have 23 equipped goblins. That is 34 models, your highest fight value is 4, you can be outnumbered by elves, your highest courage is 3 and you will have to test that courage score 7 times and could potentially lose all 7 heroes in one movement phase. That said you do have enough might to tactically outmaneuver any foe and the giant spiders can kind of act as a brute force. However pretty much any non hobbit member of the fellowship or similar good hero could tear this force apart.

On the other hand a Durburz, shaman, spider queen combo could get 4 giant spiders and 43 goblins in. This force can counter archers to an extent, gets an instant standfast, has a hero/monster killer and can outnumber the enemy, has a highest fight value of 6. Don't get me wrong i like goblin captains but as i and lord hurin have said allying the spider queen and durburz together works well in 500 points.

Considering that Durburz's Stand Fast extends over the range of the shaman, it's not 18, rather maximum 12 with a slightly oval side of the shaman.

58.3% to get 7 or below rather, there are 21 combos of rolling 7 or less on 2 dice out of possible 36 dice outcomes. It's 41.6% to get below 7. There are 15 combos of rolling 2 dice that will give a total score below 7. Still, courage 3 on heroes is pretty useless.

Other than that I agree with what SuicidalMarsbar said


I don't understand people who send their fast moving models ahead of the army, it's a suicide and a total waste of models, but if you so prefer

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

If you're broken, you probably won't be all over the battlefield. Durburz plus a shaman are simply a far more efficient way to keep your army together when it's actually necessary. Granted the might points can come in handy, but I think you'd get more mileage out of some heavy hitters and maxing troops.



Only? It's amazing! In most games it's 1/4 of the board, 1/2 the board in each direction, plenty of room for swarming and surrounding.



As BlackMist said, this is a bad idea. It can seem tedious, but it's a lot better to plod forward hiding them behind cheap goblins (which is why you max numbers) until it's time to burst from cover and slurp on weak elf archer blood

Essentially, he wants to use 6 Goblin Captains and there's nothing we can say to change his mind. Contrary to looking for advice, it seems the OP is looking for accolades on his Hero-heavy force.

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

The Castellans don't have the option for Morgul Blades in LoME, only in the FotN sourcebook. It states in LoME that models are restricted to the equipment choices in their LoME list...

Just a side note: on page 125 of LoME (the FaQ), it states Sourcebooks take precedent. "...always use the version printed in the sourcebook.".

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

Edited some of the parts, so my 1000 pts army list now contains shamans!

Why I take 6 captains? Answered this question before somewhere...
If I would take 2 strong heroes, let's say something like Saruman and the witch-king (not upgraded): 240 pts (yes I know they're no goblin heroes)
I could also take 4 goblin captains with shield, and 2 goblin captains with bow for the same amount of points.
Sure, the named heroes are great, but Saruman and the witch-king's stand fast! Won't cover your total army if using a swarming army like me, 6 captains divided over your army do, so your goblins won't really run away like if they saw Sauron practising for piano lessons if your huge force is broken.

_________________
I love Goblins and I love strategy, so I'm TheGoblinTacticus

If I'm not using correct English, I'm really sorry but I'm Dutch

But Durburz has an extended standfast.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

And Courage 6 Saruman or Witch King never flee, while Courage 3 captain flees every other roll. Same with Durburz - with 3 Might and 2 Will he stays around for much longer, even though he's C4.

Captains are just absolute waste of points, as they draw against F3 models and lose against majority of good side models. I play Moria too and... I never needed a captain because always Durburz or some other named hero are around. Against Elves, Gondor and Dwarves, a Goblin Captain is essentially a 35-40 point goblin, essentially a waste of 30 points.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Sure, Durbuz is great, but the point is, If I'm taking Durbuz, I have to take a dol gulur hero as well to take my spiders in, wich is 100 points at cheapest (orc captain), for that, I can have 2 captains and I've got 20 points for 4 more goblins......
Because heroes haven't got a bow limit, both captains can have a bow+2(6/3) of the goblins, meaning i've got 4 bows against Durburz and an orc captain with a max. of one bow.

Durburz is somewhere on the field and yes, 28 cm. Is HUGE, but only at one point.
Guess I won't get 46(500pts),74(750pts) in 28 cm at durburz and still have spear support. The captains are also handy because if I would take durburz, and no other captains, I had to many units for the points.....
Durburz is definitly in my 1000 pts army, and so is the spider queen, hopefully with 3 shamans and a captain with bow.

_________________
I love Goblins and I love strategy, so I'm TheGoblinTacticus

If I'm not using correct English, I'm really sorry but I'm Dutch

An Orc Captain isn't 100pts, its 45.

But a at 500pts, Durburz & a Spider Queen would make a great combination, for a total of 135pts which is ok as horde armies should spend 150ish pts on heroes. Plus Goblin/Orc Captains have Courage 3 so they're unlikely to pass their own courage test, thus providing no stand fast and robbing you of 40pts.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

O_o.

You don't have to take an Orc Captain to take a spider queen.
Goblin bows are rubbish and having 20 Goblins with bows is already enough, there's no point taking captains with bows.

About Durburz's range - set him in the middle of your support line (in the 3rd rank) and your range extends to 12" one side and 12" another, that's 24", so 24 bases, hence 48 goblins (24 shields and 24 spears) get into his range. Then you have another hero like idk, a captain even, who stays with the archers and with his 6" stand fast covers 12" wide, so double line of 24 shooting goblins. In 700 points you will often be fielding a Shadow Lord and a Spider Queen along Durburz, there's no need for captains - the most advisable is 2, but that's not because of Stand Fast, but because for 70 points they have 4 Might over Durburz's 3 in 60 points - the only time this would be done though is if you have a Spider Queen and a Shadow Lord on Fell Beast, who require other people's Might to call heroic moves, as they don't want to waste their own (see 3rd place UKGT army in 2010 in the link below). Plus as I said earlier, captains just fail courage too often.

Check out some of the GT winning lists (http://venivididouble1.blogspot.com/) and point out people who use multiple unnamed captains instead of named heroes. In fact you'd probably count less of them in all of 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 top 3 armies than in your one army (Bear in mind that outriders aren't considered captains because they're as cheap as normal warriors. Rangers of the North are compulsory, so don't count them either). Also note, that in almost every top GT army case, if a captain is taken, it is only for the purpose of the cheap alliance option and not for the sake of having a captain - most top players would play without unnamed heroes if they could because named ones are just so much better.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

@GothmogtheWerewolf
No, what I'm saying is, that if you would take Durbûrz, you have to ally Dol Guldor for spiders. So, at cheapest, you need an orc captain for 40 points. Durbûrz is 60, so together they would be a 100 points. For that, I can have 2 captains (with upgrades) ánd 4 goblin warriors. Heroes doesn't have a bow limit, so I could have 2 captains w. bow, 2 goblins with bow, 1 with shield and 1 with spear.
Sure, I cannot slay Durbûrz in one turn, but 4 shots is enough to kill him before he reaches me. The orc captain hasn't got a bow, so he's next. If someone reaches me, I could put the goblin captain, one goblin archer and the goblin with shield against him, and giving one of the units spear support, trapping durburz/orc captain with 5 attacks. If he's got priority, I've got the other captain for a heroic move, so I can still charge with the others.

@Blackmist
I know that you doesn't need an orc captain to have a spider queen, but I'm going for spiders.


Btw, this should be in army help, so I think I'm gonna post it there again!

_________________
I love Goblins and I love strategy, so I'm TheGoblinTacticus

If I'm not using correct English, I'm really sorry but I'm Dutch

I like how you ignored the rest of the stuff I said.

_________________
Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

You're only reading the parts of advice you want to, what's the point on giving goblin captains, who are about to run away, bows.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.