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War of the Ring movement and charging rules clarification
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=18318		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  isengard99 [ Sun May 02, 2010 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  War of the Ring movement and charging rules clarification
Trying to figure out the answers to three questions I had and would appreciate the commuity's thoughts;

1. Do you have to charge in a straight line or can I charge in an arc to maybe get at an enemy formations flank or avoid making contact with multiple enemy companies in a foramtion?

2. A troll chieftan has might. So, can a troll chieftan perform at the double and can it declare heroic duels before fighting a formation?

3. If I have three companies abreast (left to right) in a formation and want to wheel right or left (turn 90 degrees), how many inches does it take for the furtherest company to execute that 90 degree turn? - this is the BIGGEST question I have since I hear so many different answers. The book has a picture in the movement section, but doesn't tell you how many inches.

Thanks in advance!
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sun May 02, 2010 6:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
1. You charge in a direct line to your opponent's unit. You have to look at the side that you are nearest. Imagine a line, 45 degrees from each flat edge at the corners. This splits the surrounding area into four zones, a frontal arc, two side arcs and a rear arc. See which one your unit is in and that is where you will be charging to. It should be in the rule book.

2. Ifg a monster has might, it is counted as a hero. So, yes it can and yes it can.

3. Unsure of this I haven't the rulebook to hand. The simplest way is to have each 90 degrees use up a quarter of the movement. If it's a slight turn, no movement need be spent (a VERY small angle), but anything above about 45 degrees up to 90 degrees will be a quarter and anything above that will be half. That's just a proxy rule until you can check, get a better answer or I can check.
Author:  isengard99 [ Sun May 02, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  War of the Ring movement and charging rules clarification
I appreciate the reponse to the questions.

Your reply specificying that it's all about what "zone" are you in when charging is very helpful. I can see many situations where the enemy formation is in front of mine, but since I am offset and more in their flank's zone I can charge and flank them that turn

I agree with the Troll Chiefton thoughts. If it has might, should be able to do heroic duels and at the double or any other heroic action mentioned in the special rules.

Please look at pg 33 of the war of the ring book for the left/right wheel I was talking about. You'll see a pic of a formation of 6 companies of Gondor executing a right flank or wheel right. I tried to do some measuring of the distances the companies travel when doing this and it would seem that the inner most company turning right uses 6" from their outer corner, the middle company uses 12" from their outer corner, while the outermost company uses 18" from their outer corner to swing over completely right and "catch up" with the 1st two companies. what do you think? If this is the case, looks like the only way to pull this off while keeping the same line abreast formation after the right or left flank, would be with a heroic advance that gives you 18" of movement with a company that normally moves 6"
Author:  hithero [ Sun May 02, 2010 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ignore any diagrams as they are for indication only and not drawn to scale. Just read the text - no corner of a unit can move further than its move allowance. That simple rule will cover any and all maneuvres.
Author:  isengard99 [ Sun May 02, 2010 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  War of the Ring movement and charging rules clarification
I appreciate the follow up on the wheel right and left movements. You are right the pics in the books are only to illustrate a point and not to scale. I'll just keep measuring from the corners.
Author:  moviemonkeyinc [ Thu May 06, 2010 4:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
1.The way you charge is you choose a spearhead company (choose wisely because you want to choose one that is in the flank or rear) and you move them in. Then once your spearhead moves in the rest of the formation can move upto double their movemont so that you can get as many in the fight as possble.

2.Yes a troll chieftan has might so he can att he double and declare a heroic dual

3. ok in the rulebook and the OFFICAL GW FAQ says that as long as you don't move farther than the furthest point it doesn't matter how you move. i don't understand why people keep using the word wheel. nowhere in the rulebook or any battle report does it mention wheel. WoTR movement was made to be simple. to flip your models around is free movement cause the tray isn't moving. i suggest dropping wheeling from your vocab when your playing WoTR. only in fastasy is there wheeling
Author:  hithero [ Thu May 06, 2010 7:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Regardless if the term Wheel is in the rulebook or not, if a formation anchors one end while moving the other - it's a wheel.
Author:  moviemonkeyinc [ Fri May 07, 2010 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
you don't anchor anything. you just move. simple and clear. if you movement is 8" its simple don't move more than 8". no wheel ..... no anchor ...... just move
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Fri May 07, 2010 1:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
moviemonkeyinc: so you can only go forwards or 180 and then move forwards? How do you propose that you turn without "wheeling", whether it be called that or spinning or turning or tilting or what-have-you?

"A rose by any other name smells just as sweet." or for this: "A wheel by any other name, turns just as well."
Author:  lorelorn [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:13 am ]
Post subject: 
In War of the Ring the only relevance is your starting point and your ending point. As long as no part of the base is further than the maximum allowed between those points, it's a legal move. Pick up the movement tray, put it down where you want to move to. If it's within your movement alloweance, it's a legal move.The rules are that straightforward.

It is irrelevant and potentially misleading to blather on about wheeling.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Now now, if it weren't for irrelevant blathering (and p*rn :no:) the internet would never have come as far as it has (fidonet + blathering = newsgroups + blathering = web forums + blathering = social media + blathering = next great thing ). :rofl:
Author:  lorelorn [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I believe you just described the iPad :-D
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sun May 09, 2010 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 
lorelorn: my point is that wheeling etc can happen within that movement and saying that it is irrelevant is somewhat silly as it is still within the movement and completely necessary to avoid "straight forwards/spin around and move straight forwards in the opposite direction" type movement.

So, whilst there is no mention of wheeling in the rules, it is far from irrelevant as maneauvring is a huge part of the strategic aspects fo the game, lol.
Author:  Eorltheyoung [ Sun May 09, 2010 12:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
1. You charge in a direct line to your opponent's unit. You have to look at the side that you are nearest. Imagine a line, 45 degrees from each flat edge at the corners. This splits the surrounding area into four zones, a frontal arc, two side arcs and a rear arc. See which one your unit is in and that is where you will be charging to. It should be in the rule book.



I actually have the rule book, and you don't have to charge in a staight line.
Author:  hithero [ Sun May 09, 2010 1:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
moviemonkeyinc wrote:
you don't anchor anything. you just move. simple and clear. if you movement is 8" its simple don't move more than 8". no wheel ..... no anchor ...... just move

A wheel is a description of how you move and not a requirement within the rules - just real life, if you can't understand that, well...
Author:  moviemonkeyinc [ Sun May 09, 2010 4:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
the word Wheeling is misleading. Many people when you tell them wheeling they automatically think about warhammer fantasy and they think that movement is just like that when its nothing like it. Wheeling and "JUST MOVE" are 2 different types of movement. When you and i play a game you can wheel all you want and i will play the game as it was ment to be played.

Ive gone to many GW's and independants and they talk about wheeling for WoTR and i have to correct them all the time cause they move like fantasy and it actually slows down the game and restricts movement alot.

so just move!!!!!
Author:  isengard99 [ Mon May 10, 2010 1:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry the term "wheeling" is throwing people off..I could have used right or left flank to describe a 90 degree military facing movement (i've never played fantasy and so was no confusing the game), but chose wheel because the it was depicted in the book in the form of a picture even though the word wheel wasn't used.

To me, and after reading most of people's posts, the wheel is a tactical move that must considered...you can make a facing movement (or wheel) all you want as long as the trailing corners of your companies don't exceed the maximum distance. Your ability to wheel 90 degrees is going to depend on how many companies are line abreast. For example, one company easily is within 6" of its max movement to do a 90 degree turb while three companies abreast will require at least at the double or even a heroic move to garner the necessary movement rate...and you still have to factor in if you are within 6" of the enemy which will double your move rate. So, these wheel movements must be discussed as they are critically to properly align your formation to the enemy.

With respect to charges, I believe you do have to charge in a straight line, but where's where it appears you don't and I see the pics in the abttle reports in White Dwarf. If you are face to face with the enemy but more of their flank is more exposed than their front to your spearhead, then you can charge and arc around to have the your spearhead aligned up with the flank of the enemy formation. This is very important tactically, especially when you have cavalry because they can come out of nowhere on the side of the board and be at a flank in no time with at the double or heroic move and then a charge.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon May 10, 2010 9:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Eorltheyoung: Not what I said. I said not being able to turn would mean that you can only move forwards in a straight line. You can charge at an angle within the frontal arc, but you couldn't end up moving to the other side of the battlefield, is what I was meaning.

moviemonkeyinc: You don't seem to realise that we're not syaing wheeling is a movement within the rules or anything like that, but it is turning. If you can't turn then the game loses damned near all strategy, maneuvring and ability to claim objectives/fight effectively. Wheeling is simply the action of one corner moving round in an arc and the other staying still. It is movement allowed within the rules and it is necessary to change the direction that you are moving (excepting a 180 degree change of direction). Saying "Just move" is ridiculous when you're also saying "Turning isn't allowed within the rules". I'm going to have to assume that you're not clear about what we're saying, otherwise your games must be VERY dull with only forawrd movement and no turning allowed.

hithero: precisely.

isengard99: I don't think anything you said threw us off, tbh.What you have said is quite correct and points out the fatal flaw of "no turning allowed". You charge in a straight line, but it can be angled up to 45 degrees from the corners of your base. Essentially, you must have the enemy in your frontal arc and not hidden and you move in as direct a route as possible: however, you aren;t limited to only move on a train-track that is set to be straight forwards from the edges of the company/formation.
Author:  Eorltheyoung [ Mon May 10, 2010 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hashut's Blessing:Thank you for clearing that up abit.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon May 10, 2010 5:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not a problem. Sorry for the confusion. I ahte it when I'm not clear about what I'm trying to say, lol :D Makes people think I'm a bugger for correcting their misconception (which is because of my wording rather than their reading, lol). Anyhow, glad to have cleared it ;)
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