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SBG Range
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=18597		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Azrael [ Fri May 28, 2010 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  SBG Range
I was woundering what are the best range units in the game.... Most say Elven but even if they have to sacrifice their whole movement and only hit on 4+ they are still tough with the str 4 crossbow...

So what are the best range units in your opinion?
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri May 28, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe Elves due to flexibility as well as effectiveness. That movement restriction really can't be downplayed. If you're lucky enough to be able to deploy your XBows where you can shoot right away, or if you're playing a scenario where you're needing to protect something in your deployment zone, then XBows are probably going to outshine. Just a few of them in the right place can really help channel an enemy's movement or slow an advance on a defended position.

But if you have to move around (which you usually do in most games) then they drop dramatically. In most games I've played as or against Isengard I usually find they don't ge a chance to shoot until turn 2 or 3 because of getting into the right place. And if your enemy is smart and has a chance to use terrain or your own army as cover they stick you where you find yourself having to move again after one turn of shooting.

Also, though XBows have great range for direct fire, they can't volley. In some games the power of volley isn't just about extra range but also a chance to hit an enemy you can't otherwise target. Have some troops hidden behind a hill or woods? Get a spotter on them and drop a volley of arrows. Yeah you may only hit on 1s, but at least there's a chance that XBows don't have.

Meanwhile, with Elves you get great range and accuracy, with only a small drop in hitting power. You also have the ability to 1/2 move and fire so you can keep putting the hurt on your enemy while you advance or fall back. And I already covered volley fire above.

From a practical point of view, there's also cost. Uruk XBows are still only available as metals (right??). If you only look at the cost of two blisters (6 Uruks) of XBows vs. the 8 Elf bows you get in a single box of plastics for about the same cost then it isn't too bad. But those plastics also come with 16 other warriors for your army. If/when GW releases plastic Uruks with XBows then this issue will go away.

Now, if you're playing Isengard then absofrigginlutely get some XBows on the table. I have had 9 in my force forever. Even at small point games I usually will take a couple just to setup somewhere and snipe at a Hero or else add extra threat when defending an objective. If possible, I try to have between 4-6 in most of my Isengard lists, with Vrasku embedded among them if legal for that game. But for the question of which shooter, Elf Bow or XBow is generally "better" in SBG I would have to say the flexibility of the Elf Bow beats the punch of the XBow under most conditions.
Author:  BlackMist [ Fri May 28, 2010 4:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
1. Outriders with Gamling.
2. Grey Company
3. Mass Haradrim Archers
4. Wood Elf bowmen
5. Citadel Guard
6. Crossbowmen
7. Rangers as part of Gondor army
8. Goblins
9. High Elves

Why? Because the number of bows the top 3 armies can have is much greater than the remaining ones, hence you don't only get great shooting, but you also get mass numbers and mass Might for competitive gameplay.
Author:  imrail [ Fri May 28, 2010 6:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
It depends, I had a lot of luck with my trebuchet killing dozens of enemies.

The elves are most of the time the most skilled with their bow, longer range then orc bows and xbows, and they hit a bit faster.
But don't forget that the corsair also have crossbows, with their pavise shields, adding much more defense.

And we most not forget the harad bows, with their poisoned arrows,
which are pretty deadly if you are (un)lucky.

But to compare everyone, take note of the point cost, range, value etc.
Author:  Highlordell [ Fri May 28, 2010 6:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Everone (except imrail) seems to have forgotten Corsair Arbalesters.

They have better defence than Uruks because of their Pavises and are also armed with Crossbows, they have weaker close combat stats but you will be setting them up on a hill to terrorise the opponents army so won't really need them. And every time I use them they immedietly draw all missile fire away from my precious Mahud, even though I only have 3 Arbalesters. :lol:

They should have had their own category, as they are the most deadly ranged troops in my opinion, and at the worst better than Uruks with Crossbows.
Author:  The_Dragon_of_Moria [ Fri May 28, 2010 7:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lets think about this one...

...Wait, got it, Dragon with Breathe Fire. Target a hero and his entourage and you can kill the hero and 3-8 warriors.
Author:  Azrael [ Fri May 28, 2010 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
longer range then orc bows and xbows
:no: Well my rule-book says xbows have the same range as elven bows...

Quote:
They should have had their own category, as they are the most deadly ranged troops in my opinion, and at the worst better than Uruks with Crossbows.
I have to disagree with you... Not every "battlefield" has got hills or positions alike and xbows are very restricted in their movement anyway so if it they get in CC the corsairs have D3 while the Uruks still got D5 and furthermore S4 what makes it more likely for them to survive.
Author:  emperor_thompson [ Sat May 29, 2010 4:02 am ]
Post subject: 
From my experience, I find elf bows to be the most potent. The movement restrictions, combined with the high cost of the warrior, really limit the effectiveness of any Uruk-Hai crossbow force, and if they are pitted against elves you should really reconsider using them as archers at all. Crossbows are better against any 6D army, however, when you consider that the enemy will usually have 5D archers with them, an elf army would still have some soft targets to shoot at.

And never underestimate the power of volley fire! The team with the stronger archer force gets to decide where the fight will be held. At the very least, volleying will force your crossbow wielding enemies to move within 24" of your army, so you won't need to charge very far to reach them (and they can't move backwards, so they won't get many shots in).

Crossbows are probably the most overrated weapon in the game. While they are a good option for your Uruk-Hai, the alternative is an orc bow!
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
I get really scared when I face crossbows, much more so than Elf bows, so I voted for the crossbows.

Crossbows don't neccessarily need to be killing someone for them to be worth using. Even if they only discourage enemies from approaching a certain area or force your opponent to play offensively they might be worth their points.
Author:  imrail [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
General Elessar wrote:
I get really scared when I face crossbows, much more so than Elf bows, so I voted for the crossbows.

Crossbows don't neccessarily need to be killing someone for them to be worth using. Even if they only discourage enemies from approaching a certain area or force your opponent to play offensively they might be worth their points.


That is true, crossbows are scary just by looking at them.
But they do have their disadvantages.
The arbelasters are better than uruks (in my opinion) because of their pavise shields.
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
imrail wrote:
The arbelasters are better than uruks (in my opinion) because of their pavise shields.


Probably. I haven't faced arbelasters yet (or any Corsairs).
Author:  isengard owns [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
i voted for xbows but haradrim poisen arrows has really helped me in the past. if you kill an extra 3 guys a game which is the usuall for me it really helps.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
General Elessar wrote:
I get really scared when I face crossbows, much more so than Elf bows, so I voted for the crossbows.


Which explains the downfall of your dwarves to my elves. :-D I chose elves as mobility is just soooo important. I agree that crossbows are scarrier but being intimidating with crossbows works both ways. If the intimidating crossbows are as intimidating as everyone thinks they are then noone is going to go anywhere near them which is good as you'll be able to secure areas easier, however, not going anywhere near them also means you will get very few kills. Also, as crossbows have to sacrifice all their move, the enemy can easily sit 25" away from your crossbows without any fear of being shot. Elf bows are the same in reverse, it's amazing how badly some people under-estimate elf bow fire. Looks does a lot, people would naturally think that some wedge men with, effectively, old-school guns and shields as big as a house are tougher than sissy-girls carrying twigs with some girl's hair on. With elf bows you can very easily get tonnes of bowfire on the enemy but you have to play more offensively than with crossbows.
Author:  emperor_thompson [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Crossbows aren't that intimidating if you know how to counter them. All you need to do is volley at them from 25" away. Then, the turn they move foward to stop you (which should be the turn after your enemy figures out what's going on), you charge your army at them. If you do it right, they will only get 3 turns of shooting. If you have elves, you should always make them come to you. If you are against the corsairs, just shoot their warriors instead, they'll die on a 4+ (you'll break them in to time).

If the terrain permits, you can easily get your archers behind cover and volley at them from there. This will force them to come to you, and suffer an in-the-way shot when they do. You will need to hide your army behind your archers though.
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