The One Ring
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/

WotR. supporting attacks
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19952		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  WotR. supporting attacks
do supporting attacks get the bonuses from the original company? (ie: the command company has aragon, so does the supporting attack also have a +2 to wound)
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Those rules specify the hero's company, so nope ;)
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
well supporting attacks allow the company to make 1 attack when its not in contact, so technicly it should still get the bonuses.

show where your getting the rules to back up what you said
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Anduril only applies to his company so the tray he's in. Its in plain English in the book. I missed that tidbit a few times :S Same goes for Narsel and Aiglos. Its not like the Ring Wraiths powers where the whole formation benefits from their special rules.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
if the company isnt in base contact, it gets to make 1 attack (supporting). since its still the companies attack it should still get the bonuses
Author:  hithero [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Supporting companies grant an extra dice to the company fighting, so these dice do get the mods.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Quote:
Supporting companies grant an extra dice to the company fighting, so these dice do get the mods.


what do you mean by THESE DICE? which ones are you talking about
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
I've got confused here. Are we talking about a supporting company that has Aragorn in it? If so, that single die gains the Anduril bonus. If we are talking about a company supporting Aragorn's, then it doesn't get the bonus. The supporting attacks are not in addition to the direct-combat companies in the same way as a searman supporting in SBG - they are that company's attacks, but reduced because they can't really do loads to help.

End line: If the supporting company itself has the bonus, it gets the bonus. If the supporting company doesn't have the bonus, it doesn't get it. The only company that does get the bonus from Anduril (for example) is the one that has Aragorn in it. (NB: Company, not formation.)
Author:  BlackMist [ Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
he supporting attacks are not in addition to the direct-combat companies in the same way as a searman supporting in SBG - they are that company's attacks, but reduced because they can't really do loads to help.

That's what I thought all this time too, but then look at page 51 example on the top right. It says that the "supporting Elven companies add their dice to any of the companies fighting directly" - which implies that supporting attacks do indeed work in the exact same way as in LotR - they do not make strikes themselves, but add extra dice to the companies fighting directly - except that you can have more than 1 company supporting you. Why is this such a big issue? Because if the supporting company is the command with Anduril, Epic Rampage and some other bonuses, then it autokills the enemy formation which is clearly unacceptable, since so far the only reliable way of dealing with autokill combo was to simply not charge the command company.

Example a) Command has 8 dice and 1 supporter. Command therefore doesn't get 8 dice with Anduril and 1 without - it gets 9 with Anduril
Example b) Another company has 8 dice and 1 supporter. The fact that the supporter has Anduril and gains +2 bonus is irrelevant because it only adds dice to the total of the company fighting directly
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
It says that they add their dice to them, but that's to the pool of attacks. In the same way as adding 8 and 8 together to make 16 for two companies in base contact. At least, that's how it reads to me and has a stronger case for it.

If necessary, consider whether or not it would be better for your games (obviously discuss with your opponent first) and choose that way. I imagine that for fun games, my reading is more logical and for ultra-ultra-ultra competitive games, some people may prefer the other one (a potential 8 additional +2 attacks).

I think that the rule is more strongly (somewhat, anyway) geared towards a pool of attacks (of which 8 + Fight value difference are benefitting from Anduril - if it's supporting, it would be 1) and balance leans that way, as does logic.

However, if it can be proven without a doubt to be the other way, that's fine too, lol.
Author:  BlackMist [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Hashut's Blessing wrote:
I think that the rule is more strongly (somewhat, anyway) geared towards a pool of attacks (of which 8 + Fight value difference are benefitting from Anduril - if it's supporting, it would be 1) and balance leans that way, as does logic.

The competitive side has a pretty big problem in this sense because the "balance" completely breaks if you allow the +2 to work for the command company when it is supporting. Why? Because the +2, then +1 on 2 handed weapons, then S5 and Epic Rampage in that supporting company (well it is the command with Aragorn and Gimli) means that this 1 dice from the supporting company has the autokill ability. Where's the balance in it then? How can it be logical that someone who is at the back of combat, not even directly involved in it, can instantly destroy a whole formation? You charge the formation from behind to avoid getting in touch with the command company (that's been the most reliable technique of dealing with the autokill combo) and yet if the rule is allowed, then it doesn't matter because your formation gets destroyed anyway.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Either I misworded it or you've misunderstood what I meant: I was saying that the balance is in the supporting attacks NOT benefitting from this rule.
Author:  BlackMist [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
Sorry, I misunderstood then :)
Author:  Xelee [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR. supporting attacks
I think the example on pg 51 is just sloppy wording. This is a common pitfall with rules examples, which are there to illustrate one point (in this case the options and restrictions in a multiple combat) and sometimes not enough thought goes into the phrasing. The point here is that a supporting company can only contribute dice if a base in b2b also contributes dice to a fight. I guess if you really wanted to stretch it, you could argue that supporting attacks work differently in a multi-company fight.

From the looks of the 'combat modifiers' and 'supporting attacks' sections:
1. While that list might not be exhaustive, it looks like these are all things that modify the number of dice. So you do not get combat modifiers for supporting attacks because (unless you have a special rule) supporting attacks grant only one dice.
2. As to what the dice are contributed to, they are contributed to the fight as a whole, along with combat modifiers, and the coys in b2b.
3. So, based on those sections, it looks to me that supporting attacks use their abilities - do people really not give eg 2HW the benifit of their +1 when they are supporting attacks?

The issue of generating a 3+, then 1+ to hit for the purposes of an Epic Rampage (with a heroic fight!) via certain heroes is a separate issue to this. Like a few legal things in this game, I think it shouldn't be used by reasonable people, and that is what houserules are for. If you think of the two as linked, this is just going to end up like 'Epic Strike' where teh logical contortions involved in bending the rules to make the balance what people wanted it to be, literally confused many... and then it was all obviated by a FAQ.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/