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| Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=20736 |
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| Author: | ChristsSoldier [ Sat May 07, 2011 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? |
I recently saw this post and was wondering if it was correct. http://www.thelastalliance.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3419 Basically, they said that you can shoot at enemy spear support freely because it is not part of the fight. The rulebook says this: Quote: The spear-armed warrior who is supporting a friend as described is not part of the combat for all intents and purposes (ie, the Fight value, strength, and Might of the spearman do not come into the fight at all). I thought that "not part of the combat" was just talking about their fighting stats, not them literally not counting as part of the fight. Though you can't kill a supporting spearman if you win the fight against the front model, right? Also, if a supporting model really is "not part of the combat" in any way (besides allowing his friend to have an extra attack), then wouldn't the lead model in a tight triple pike block be trapped if he loses? If you have a row of swordsmen in front, spears as second row, and pikes in the third row, if the swordsman loses, he would have to retreat 1". The spear man who is not part of the fight can make way, but the last pikeman behind can't make way for a model already making way (the spearman). This doesn't make sense though. I've always played that "not part of the combat" just means the guy in front uses his own stats for both attacks (if he is S4, and spearman S3, there are 2 S4 attacks), but you can't strike against a losing spearman. When shooting into combat, we have played that spearmen count as being in combat as part of the fight. Thanks. |
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| Author: | antlion [ Sat May 07, 2011 5:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? |
That thread is correct. You can trust Hithero to know the rules. The front unit in a pike block is trapped as you said. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat May 07, 2011 6:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? |
You can definitely shoot at spear support, it's a very necessary tactic. You can not strike at them if you win the fight. I'll second the "trust Hithero" comment. |
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| Author: | ChristsSoldier [ Sat May 07, 2011 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? |
So isn't a triple pike block very risky? Your front unit will take double strikes if he loses... And if you're against, say, Elves with spear support, that doesn't sound too good... It seems to negate some of the practicality and purpose of pikes. |
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| Author: | hithero [ Sat May 07, 2011 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at Spear Support in Combat? |
Yep, it is risky and not unrealistic either. Pikes were invented primarily as a defence against cavalry and the rules work perfectly against cavalry attacks as a charging horseman will get double attacks against you any way if it wins. Against infantry the pike did suffer against infantry if it lost which is how the Romans beat the Macedonians, throw javalins and get stuck in with a short sword - and win in the confusion! In the pike and shot era, pike phalanxes would battle each other and the victory went to whoever pushed the enemy over! If you are apprehensive in fighting 3 deep against a foe then alternate each file between 3 deep and 1 deep, the 1 model file shield rather than attacks effectively giving 5 dice combats over 2 fights. This then allows the 2rd rank pike to step sideways to avoid entrapment. |
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