The One Ring
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Warg Maraduer
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=22408		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  davard74 [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Warg Maraduer
A few questions.

1) It counts as one model, so I would take from that you can have 33% of these and be ok. So out of 30 warriors you could take 10, for example.
2) Since it shoots twice does that mean you'd need only 5 together to volley? Or with it being 1 model would you need 10?

What do you all think?
Author:  Battalia [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
1) Correct
2) I would say 5 to volley. Your paying for the 2 gob bowmen, and they can both shoot so with 5 of them, you should be able to volley. I'd even go so far as that if they are still all touching, they could volley fire even if in combat. I think of it as the money advantage. If your going to blow the dough to buy 5 of the things, or make your own, then you have every right to use them to their max potential until GW says no.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
No, it would need 10 Marauders to volley, because you need 10 models to volley, not 10 shots.
Author:  Battalia [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
I would argue that since it has 2 gobs with bows on it, that they would count seperatly. For something like legolas, yea he cant shoot 3 times in a volley, but when you have 2 gobs with a bow each, its feasable.
Author:  davard74 [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
No, it would need 10 Marauders to volley, because you need 10 models to volley, not 10 shots.


I thought it was 10 of the same bow type. Which the Mararduer has 2 orc bows shooting, so 5 would be 10 orc bows shooting. I don't have the ORB with me to look it up.

On a seperate but related note.... The Great Beast thing has 9 orc archers. Again it say it counts as 1 model to determine bow count. If you had 2 of them base to base, could you volley with 18 orc archers? I'd think so.
Author:  hithero [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
The Maruders stats are calculated as one model, in every instance this is one model, therefore you need 10 to volley with it.

You could not volley with the Great beasts crew as all the orcs have to be in B2B contact.
Author:  davard74 [ Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
hithero wrote:
The Maruders stats are calculated as one model, in every instance this is one model, therefore you need 10 to volley with it.


So if that is the case can I volley 2 times with 10 shots each, or once with 20? Or do you follow the Legolas rule that even though "normally" he can shoot 3 times, for volley it is only once? So the Maraduer can shoot twice in a normal turn, but for volley it's once per model?
Author:  hithero [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
It would be once with 20 shots. As to how many shots legolas fires in a volley, it is 3.
Author:  davard74 [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
hithero wrote:
It would be once with 20 shots.

I can live with that.



hithero wrote:
As to how many shots legolas fires in a volley, it is 3.

Wait... Legolas does not get to fire 3 times in volley. You are saying he does?
Author:  Draugluin [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
hithero wrote:
It would be once with 20 shots. As to how many shots legolas fires in a volley, it is 3.

No and No. One model only adds one to the number of shots in a volley fire.
Author:  General Elessar [ Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
Draugluin wrote:
hithero wrote:
It would be once with 20 shots. As to how many shots legolas fires in a volley, it is 3.

No and No. One model only adds one to the number of shots in a volley fire.


Quotes?
Author:  hithero [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
General Elessar wrote:
Draugluin wrote:
hithero wrote:
It would be once with 20 shots. As to how many shots legolas fires in a volley, it is 3.

No and No. One model only adds one to the number of shots in a volley fire.


Quotes?


UKGT ruling, don't see why volley firing would slow down Legolas' rate of fire. Mind you, up until the GT a couple of years ago, I always assumed 1 shot to.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
"all models in the firing group that are within range roll a dice"

The statement is singular hence Legolas gets just one shot. He may currently use this as an auto hit even in volley fire though.
Author:  hithero [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
But special rules trump generic rules.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
But Deadly Shot doesn't make any mention of volley fire.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
Legolas' rule says "is allowed to shoot his bow 3 times instead of once" (paraphrasing)
"alternatively he decide to fire just one arrow, but in this case it will hit automatically"

The volley fire doesnt say "each models adds their number of shots" but instead just says they add ONE dice to the volley (hence legolas gets just 1)
Neither volley or legolas's rules disallow the one shot auto hit option.
Author:  hithero [ Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
The rules do not need to say that as they are the generic rules, any exceptions are covered by special rules. For example, we all know that models have to test Courage when the army reaches 50%, thats all the info we are given as this is the generic rule. Now further on we get to the profiles such as the Mumak where the rules tell us that it does not need to test Courage when broken. By your argument this special Mumak rule would be mentioned in the Courage part of the rules but it isn't. Special rules trump generic rules.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
Legolas' rules do not overule the volley fire rule. As it says add one dice per model. Legolas is one model so only adds one dice. Haldir only adds 1 dice too.
The mumak's rules clearly state how the changed rules fit the system. So do the rules with legolas. He gets to shoot 3 times in the shoot phase rather than just once. It doesn't say he gets to add 3 dice to volley fire despite being just one model
I know it would make more sense for him to add 3 shots but that isn't what the rules say. Just as the rules say Kurdish dude has 2 attacks and 1 wound. Until corrected we play by the rules. GW have had years to FAQ this and all the tournaments side on my side of the arguement.

I would say though, If there was 30 woodelves with bow with each block of ten touching legolas He would be able to fire in all 3 volleys by RAW. CONTRAVERSIAL... and very unlikely to happen.

The whole argument lies on the how the volley fire rules are phrased. It says one dice per model. Where as the courage rules allow for a situation like the mumak to happen.
Author:  hithero [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
cereal_theif wrote:
Legolas' rules do not overule the volley fire rule. As it says add one dice per model. Legolas is one model so only adds one dice. Haldir only adds 1 dice too.

I would say though, If there was 30 woodelves with bow with each block of ten touching legolas He would be able to fire in all 3 volleys by RAW. CONTRAVERSIAL... and very unlikely to happen.



No, because models can only shoot once. Still, 3 shots is GW's ruling not mine, take it or leave it, matters not to me, I was just giving the official answer requested.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Warg Maraduer
Actually, the official answer, take it or leave it, is that each model give one dice. Same with Immoblised models, they ONLY get one dice to win, regardless of their number of attacks.
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