This makes most sense to me... Only because otherwise GW would be encouraging the version with the cheaper cost, which doesn't seem like something they'd do!
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| Hunter Orcs Bow Limit http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=25175 |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
So warbands in Hunter Orcs have a 50% bow limit... Is that each warband, or the force of combat as a whole? For example, if I wanted Azog and Bolg, which of the following would be allowed (or both). 1: Azog 12 Fell Wargs Bolg 12 Hunter Orcs with bows Or 2: Azog 6 Fell Wargs 6 Hunter orcs with bows Bolg 6 Fell Wargs 6 Hunter orcs with bows I know in this situation there is no practical difference, but in deployment and fluff it may be relevant. Also, using the rounding up rule, if it's done warband by warband you could have a greater percentage of bows if in each warband you have 5 non bows and 6 bows. So- 50% of Azog's Hunters with bows, or 50% of each individual warband with bows? Thoughts? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
The force as a whole. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Both versions are acceptable. The bow limit work per allied contigent. If your whole army is Azog's Hunters, then 50% of you entire army can have bows, it doesn't matter how you divide them up. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Just another check- does it only apply to Hunter Orcs? Again, the FAQ as written says 'Hunter orcs in warbands led by...' Does this mean Fell Wargs wouldn't count? So 6 Wargs and 6 Orcs in a warband means only three could have bows as it's 50% of the orcs? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Yes, but 2 of your Orcs could also have bows... |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
But then it would be more than 50% of your orcs with bows, and the rule replaces the regular limit... |
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| Author: | Curufinwë [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Quote: For example, if I wanted Azog and Bolg, which of the following would be allowed (or both). 1: Azog 12 Fell Wargs Bolg 12 Hunter Orcs with bows Or 2: Azog 6 Fell Wargs 6 Hunter orcs with bows Bolg 6 Fell Wargs 6 Hunter orcs with bows Okay so in the example force you have a total of 24 hunter Orcs, the rule says that you can have 50% bows (which overrides the normal 33%) for Azogs hunter orcs and its across faction not across warbands (Azog's Hunters are their own faction). This mean that 24/2 = 12 you can have a total of 12 hunter orcs with bows. Heroes aren't counted when determining bow limits. If you only have the one warband of 6 wargs and 6 hunter orcs yes only 3 of the hunter orcs can have bows. However, if you are using the example list above you can place the bows in what ever quantity within the warband as you wish as long as the total number in the faction doesn't exceed 50% rounding up of your total Hunter Orcs. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
So if I wanted even numbers of Fell Wargs and Hunter Orcs in my faction, I would only be allowed a 25% bow limit? That seems pretty nerftastic... |
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| Author: | Curufinwë [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
River Zora wrote: So if I wanted even numbers of Fell Wargs and Hunter Orcs in my faction, I would only be allowed a 25% bow limit? That seems pretty nerftastic... Actually I didn't consider that. I think I understand now what Whafog was saying when he told you that you had an additional 2 orcs with bows as he was factoring in the 33% addition of the Fell Wargs. Thus you can have 33% bows for the fell wargs and 50% for your hunter orcs, now that does make more sense to me as its all one faction. Given the example you had above that give you 12 bows for your hunter orcs plus 33% of your wargs count as part of your allotment for bows giving you and addition 8 bows for a total of 20 bow using Hunter Orcs. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
I think I've read it how it is supposed to now... Hunter Orcs in the warband have a 50%. This means, surely, not 50% of the hunter orcs, but up to 50% of the warband of which is made up hunter orcs. The reason 'or fell wargs'isn't included in the wording makes sense this way, as fell wargs can't take bows. So if 50% of a warband is Hunter Orcs, they may all (that 50%) have bows. So either 6orcs;6orcsbows or 6wargs;6orcsbows is fine... Surely this must be what is intended? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
That makes most sense to me. I was wrong above because (as far as I can tell) you can't mix normal orcs with hunter orcs in the same warband anyway. Azog's Hunters are their own contingent, to get normal orcs you'd have to ally with someone else. Azog's Hunters only have two warrior types: hunter orcs, or fell wargs, so add them up, divide by 2 and that's how many bows you can have. |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
I would really hope that's the rule. It wouldn't make much sense to mean "50% of the Hunter Orcs" only or there is no incentive to take the Fell Wargs in a combined warband. |
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| Author: | Curufinwë [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Wouldn't the rule pretty much play out the same as the 50% bow limit for the Easterlings? Edit: This is me disregarding any other comments I have made in this thread. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
How is the bow limit for Easterlings worded? |
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| Author: | Curufinwë [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Actually I just thought about the wording and it specified Easterling warriors and as I can't check the wording for this rule as I'm out of town for about a week I can't look at the wording for the hunter orcs. You beat me to deleting my post. As per the Errata: Eastern Kingdoms Warband Rules Easterling Warriors in warbands chosen from the Eastern Kingdoms army list have a bow limit of 1/2 (rounding up) instead of the usual 1/3. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Yeah, that's the same as the orcs... How do the Easterlings work? There's no explanation in the FAQ for them either... All I want to know, is if I have Fell Wargs in my warbands, does this diminish my bow limit? Essentially as worded, if I have two fell wargs in a warband, it means I have only a 42% bow limit. If I include four, I have a normal 33% limit, and if I have any more than that, the effective bow limit is less than a normal warband and the rule clearly supposed to be an advantage, becomes a nerfing. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
I had a chat with Adam Troke at the Throne of Skulls about a few of these 'wording' issues and the overwhelming feeling he gave was 'use the rule the way you think it was intended, the way it makes most sense' Now I would stress that this conversation was nothing to do with bow limits (it was actually in relation to the White Warg will debate discussed elsewhere) but by that token, and remembering that the rule is meant to be an advantage, I would imagine the rule is 'intended' as follows: Azog's Hunters warbands have a 50% bow limit. I don't have my Hobbit book to hand but if, as others have stated, the only troop choices are Fell Wargs and Hunter Orcs then I think it's safe to assume this is the intention of the rules. Unfortunately, this may not hold water in situations like tournaments where people like to agonise over the exact wording of the rules as printed but it certainly makes sense to me for friendly gaming. |
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| Author: | River Zora [ Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
This makes most sense to me... Only because otherwise GW would be encouraging the version with the cheaper cost, which doesn't seem like something they'd do!
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| Author: | River Zora [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Spoke to the guys at the local GW, and they said, as written, they would have to take it as 50% of Hunter Orcs, per each individual warband. As such, this means you can take 1 Fell Warg in each warband without it making any impact on the bow limit as you round the percentage up to the next whole model, and that the rule advantage is to encourage the decision whether to have a Melee army with Fell Wargs limiting your bow options, or a ballistics army with very few Fell Wargs. With some Excel jiggery pokery I have made a version using this interpretation featuring 11 Fell Wargs at 1500 pts, and only being 3 bows below the tru 50% by spreading them across 5 warbands. Still think it means the '50% of an Azog's Hunters Warband may be Hunter Orcs armed with bows' interpretation, though
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hunter Orcs Bow Limit |
Just because they work at a GW store doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, and in this case I doubt they do. The only way that it makes any sense is that Azog's Hunters warbands can have 50% bows. The only reason why they would say "hunter orcs" is that they're the only ones that can take bows. |
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