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nerfing of armies, and warbands?
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=26669		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Apower101 [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Hello everyone,

I am currently repainting all of my uruks and high elves, and have asked about an army list for my uruks, and was told about warbands. Also, people are talking about the nerfing of spears and bows? As well as deployment. I am a little confused about this, as I only have the rulebook from 2005, and have no means of getting newer books. COuld someone explain these things to me?

Thanks

Apower101

*edit*

Also, is it just me, or is thorin incredibly op with orcrist and the oakenshield, at Moderator Edit: please do not post points or profiles with the possibility of doing up to 3 wounds with one attack vs orcs goblins and uruks?
Author:  ChrisC [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
As far as I'm aware;

1: Warbands mean you can take 12 warriors per 1 hero in your army. This is the only point I know to be 100% accurate.

2: Spear nerf, was that you now need 2 pikes to back up one model, rather than a pike uruk backing up a spear orc backing up a shield uruk. This stops the 'orc sandwich' tactic we used to see back in the day.

3: Bow nerf, I believe, was the removal of volley fire.

All the old LotR rules are in the new Hobbit rule book, they are essentially the same game. So you can either get the new £50 rulebook, get the Hobbit starter set for about £65 online, or just buy the small Hobbit rulebook off of Ebay for about £20-£25.

The rules are certainly not OOP.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
The bow nerf is not the removal of volley (which I have voiced my displeasure with) it's the penalty when you move and shoot. If you move and shoot you get a -1 to your shoot value (so if your stat line says 4+ you need to roll a 5+ if you move).

I dislike warbands as well (only because it's a uniform 12 to 1 troop to hero ratio for every team, it should depend on faction I think ie more goblins in a warband than elves)

I too also dislike the deployment rules as you start SO close, I know some ppl say it removed the "sit and snipe" tactics, which I've never used but I have no qualms with, it's a legitimate tactic in my books
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
'bow nerfing' :lol: basically if you move half and still want to shoot, you take a -1 penalty. So 3+ becomes 4+ etc etc. It hasn't really changed the meta of the game, archery still features a fair bit in competitive lists. You just have to be more tactical with them instead of stand, shoot, withdraw 3".
The removal of volley fire was to encourage the skirmish aspect of the game which is has; and to be honest, I never used it anyway.

Spears have defo not been nerfed. Spearmen now use their FV and str when supporting. I regularly stick fountain/ citadel guard behind WoMT to gain the F4.
Author:  Fëanor, the mighty elf [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Correct, but let me elaborate a bit: a model supporting with his spear now also contributes his Fv to the fight, and if they win the fight, the spearman does 1 Attack at his own Strength.
Bow nerf would probably also refer to the -1 modifier To Hit if a model has moved at all, but the removal of volley fire is also slightly annoying.

Also, all profiles for the models in the Escape from Goblin Town box can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... =29900002a
Thorin indeed looks pretty good for his points..
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Fëanor, the mighty elf wrote:

Also, all profiles for the models in the Escape from Goblin Town box can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... =29900002a
Thorin indeed looks pretty good for his points..

Thorin is good but I think (from experience) Dwalin is better +1 to all to wound rolls without the -1 penalty and a str 5. (And if they are too tough on defense he can bash them to the ground then get double strikes the next turn)
Author:  Denizen [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Don't forget about throwing weapons. They follow the same rules as bow but since charging counts as moving you always throw at +1. Which makes them quite useless for Rohan Warriors etc and definiatly not worth 2 points.

Dwalin lacks 3/3/3 for me to be really kick-ass. Thorin is definiatly the best bet for his points, certainly on a mount! :shock:

Although S5, +1 on the To Wound, A4 and double strikes sounds pretty awesome too :-D (Dwalin mounted)
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Just the sheer killing power for Dwalin is worth the -1 Will and Fate to me lol pair him with the KC for an absolute meat-grinder
Author:  whafrog [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
JamesR wrote:
I too also dislike the deployment rules as you start SO close, I know some ppl say it removed the "sit and snipe" tactics, which I've never used but I have no qualms with, it's a legitimate tactic in my books


Legitimate tactic, sure, but it and volley fire can conspire to make quite a boring game.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
whafrog wrote:
JamesR wrote:
I too also dislike the deployment rules as you start SO close, I know some ppl say it removed the "sit and snipe" tactics, which I've never used but I have no qualms with, it's a legitimate tactic in my books


Legitimate tactic, sure, but it and volley fire can conspire to make quite a boring game.


I'm just weird then lol I never found it boring having those in a battle, of course when my friends and I would play it was often planned on being an all day thing so its enjoyable. Talk, catch-up, eat and game lol
Author:  Bilbo [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Orcrist is basically there so that Thorin has a reasonable chance to win a duel and kill Azog or Bolg or the Goblin King in the game, but compared to Dwalin's ability to wound anything with a defence of up to 5 on a roll of 3+, he is definitely 2nd place in the company.

Also bows have lost the ability to volley fire now, which is limited to war machines.
Author:  Hodush [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: nerfing of armies, and warbands?
Everyone else has said pretty much everything already but Yes, Thorin has a good profile, and as the leader of the company, there is good reason for it. Given that the other dwarves also have decent profiles, GW really had to give him such a good profile just to set him apart - a very solid pick vs orcs/goblins.

The warbands rule is the most significant change as you are now spending about 2x more on heroes than under the old rules (for a standard army). This does limit the number of options available to you.

The deployment rules are pretty simple - 1-3 you start within 12" of the centre of the board, 4-6 you can pick where you want (more than 12" away if you wish), however, all the warriors in the warband must be placed no more than 6" away from the warband leader, but they may move as far away as they like once the game begins. I THOUGHT that you could not deploy any closer than 6" from another warband, but I can't see this anywhere so technically you could have both armies 1" away from each other at the start of turn 1 (using common sense that you can't deploy inside a models control zone).

As for my personal opinion on volley fire - i liked it - it put the evil player on equal or better footing than a good player (say High Elves) and I would say was balanced as for me it came down to luck all the time - if I was unlucky and was losing the volley battle, I knew I would have to rush forward to engage with archers (the rest of my army would already be moving forward). I'll admit that it could be a little boring at the start of the game but I think it worked better than the +1 if moving rule, which doesn't affect good all that much and makes evil shooting even worse.

I think the deployment rules would have taken care of the shoot-move back-shoot strategy being overly effective as there would be less time before the lines engaged as the other player could already deploy 1/2 way in. I found the problem to be when the game had already been decided by the use of this tactic before I could engage in combat even when I had moved a full move towards the enemy every single turn. Quite a few games where I was outnumbered by elves/men at this stage as a goblin player, which leaves you with very little options. Enough thread derailment from me...
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