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| Legolas http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28505 |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Legolas |
Hi. When using legolas rule for an automatic hit do you still have to roll to see if he hits the mount or rider when shooting at cavalry? |
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| Author: | Denizen [ Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
No. Doesn't it specify this? It used to say 'he can even chose to hit rider, mount or passenger' EDIT: it doesn't say this in the sourcebook, don't know where I read it than. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
I think that's correct but I can't remember where it says that. |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
For the GBHL community FAQ, we ruled that he still had to randomise to hit mount/ rider. Most people agreed aswell. |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
It automatically hits whatever target, thus he is able to fire into combat even though he is good. You cant really have exceptions to this - it either hits everything automatically or you take in the ways and he cant shoot into combat (GW FAQ says he can). |
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| Author: | halauas [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
i will agree that he should hit straight whatever he wants, meaning he just choose rider or mount, not roll in the way or who to hit, the rule states it pretty clear since it also doesn't need any dice. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Thanks for te thoughts guys. Is there any reference in the rules you could provide it or are these just your own thoughts? |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Automatically usually means "automatically" and should continue to. That is all the reasoning you need. |
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| Author: | Armandhammer [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Hashut's Blessing wrote: He can choose. It specifies that it ignores in the way rolls and when shooting at cavalry, the mount is counted as in the way of the rider  
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| Author: | Isilduhrr [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
I actually have a few questions about this too. can he shoot having moved 6"? (i'n guessing no) can he shoot if he cannot see the target? can he shoot at models using the cover of Elven Cloaks? |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Isilduhrr wrote: I actually have a few questions about this too. can he shoot having moved 6"? (i'n guessing no) can he shoot if he cannot see the target? can he shoot at models using the cover of Elven Cloaks? No to all 3. He ignores "in the way" in that he counts as having passed all rolls he is still shooting a bow and has to follow the rules for it. So he can't shoot what he can't see, in your third question he cannot see them so he can't shoot them |
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| Author: | Isilduhrr [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
k thanks for help |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Armandhammer wrote: Hashut's Blessing wrote: He can choose. It specifies that it ignores in the way rolls and when shooting at cavalry, the mount is counted as in the way of the rider But where does it say this? I can't find it! |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: Automatically usually means "automatically" and should continue to. That is all the reasoning you need. Indeed...GBHL needs to update their FAQ... 
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
As one of the GBHL FAQ reps (along with Southy) I thought I'd weight in on this to explain the thinking behind the FAQ. Whilst from a fluff point of view he should clearly be able to pick the mount or the rider, we felt that from a RAW point of view it was actually petty clear that he can't. The rules state that Deadly Shot allows Legolas to automatically hit his target model when shooting. In the cavalry section the rulebook states quite clearly that “you must always target the model as a whole: you cannot target either part specifically”. That seems pretty clear to me, his target is the cavalry model, not the mount or rider. Then, “each time one of your shots hits a cavalry model” (p51) you roll to determine whether you hit the mount or rider. So, Legolas' rule allows him to automatically hit his target (the cavalry model) and then AFTER he has hit it, he makes a special in the roll way to determine mount or rider. As I said, this doesn't seem right from a fluff perspective but in terms of RAW it's pretty clear I think. Incidentally, I say this as a player who is currently at The Desolation of Stockport tourney using Legolas - there are also lots of other top table players (GBHL Jamie for example) who have been happy to use this ruling even though it negatively affects their army. As always, the point of our FAQ is not to say 'this is 100% correct' it's to ensure that everyone at the same event (and indeed any event) is playing by the same ruling. As for needing to update the FAQ, that's not how it works. The FAQ is now 'out there' in the community. On the Facebook group, anyone who disagrees with any of the rulings can just message me and we run them as a poll to get a majority verdict. This has worked well with about 4 questions so far and means that any debatable rulings are completely in the hands of the community. What's surprising to me is that I actually thought the Legolas question would be one of the first ones to be challenged but as of yet no-one has felt strongly enough to contact me about it. As I've said above, most players seems happy enough to know that everyone's playing it the same way. Who knows though, after this thread and it coming up again at the curry table last night maybe this'll finally be the time that it gets put to the public vote!
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| Author: | Denizen [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Well GW is remaking the entire FAQ's about LOTR (they are currently gone from the website) so this might be the time to send them an email about it? |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Dr Grant wrote: AFTER he has hit it, he makes a special in the roll way to determine mount or rider. But Leggys rule says he hits regardless of objects in the way so why does he need to make this in the way roll? The rule seems pretty clear that he hits whatever he targets be that rider or mount. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
Stormcrow wrote: But Leggys rule says he hits regardless of objects in the way so why does he need to make this in the way roll? The rule seems pretty clear that he hits whatever he targets be that rider or mount. Agreed. I can see how parsing RAW leads to GBHL's position, but... You can't tell me he can thread the needle through trees and stony crevasses with gaps the size of his arrow shaft, as many as their might be, and at the end of it can't place the shot within a 6 foot range. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
whafrog wrote: Stormcrow wrote: But Leggys rule says he hits regardless of objects in the way so why does he need to make this in the way roll? The rule seems pretty clear that he hits whatever he targets be that rider or mount. Agreed. I can see how parsing RAW leads to GBHL's position, but... You can't tell me he can thread the needle through trees and stony crevasses with gaps the size of his arrow shaft, as many as their might be, and at the end of it can't place the shot within a 6 foot range. Maybe he's received imperial storm trooper training and is extremely precise until he needs to be lol |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Apr 13, 2014 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Legolas |
JamesR wrote: Maybe he's received imperial storm trooper training and is extremely precise until he needs to be lol Stop it, you're disorienting me...I spend most of my internet forum time on FFG's Edge of the Empire board
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