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| Shooting at mounts http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=29028 |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Shooting at mounts |
The rules (in the big blue book) clearly state that if you are shooting at a rider the mount counts as in the way (p. 49). Alright, that is fine, I'll drink that kool aid. But what if I want to target the mount on purpose? I see no rule indicating that the rider is in the way. In fact, if you get right down to it, I have a more clear line of sight to the mount than I do the rider. So the question is, If I specifically tell my opponent, I'm shooting at the warg/horse/camel, do I have to make an in the way check? Please support your answer with faq's or rulings to include links or page numbers, thanks. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
You can't target the horse or the rider, you have to target the cavalry model: "You must always target the model as a whole: you cannot target either part specifically" (p51) |
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| Author: | thatguy513 [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
You target the model as a whole every time. Then you roll for in the way and that determines which one you hit, if you got the shot off. |
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| Author: | Xintao [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
Can Legolas hit either if he wants? Or does he still have to roll off? |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
It's a grey area that needs FAQing and has been debated at length elsewhere. People disagree on the exact wording/meaning but, RAW, Legolas' Deadly Shot rule means he automatically hits his target and the cavalry rules specifically state that you have to target the cavalry model and you can't target either the mount or rider specifically. Thus, for the GBHL Community FAQ, we ruled that Leggy did still have to roll to randomise. Incidentally this question has been put to the community and voted on in a poll and, whilst it wasn't a landslide, there was a clear two thirds majority in favour of randomising. For consistency's sake we also ruled that Bard's Black Arrow couldn't re-roll the horse/rider rule whilst the official GW FAQ makes it clear that the King's Huntsman's rule also doesn't affect the rider/mount roll. That's certainly not fact, we're still waiting on an official GW FAQ for that, but it's the way it's played at all UK indie tournaments. |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
That is interesting because I would argue the exact opposite using the same interpretation. However, my arguement would be based on the role player in me as opposed to the meta gamer in me. Now, I have a question then. By your interpretation, if Legolas must roll for in the way of the horse of a cavalry unit, why then does he not have to roll for in the way when he shoots into a combat? |
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| Author: | SouthernDunedain [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
because the combat is two separate models. And the combat is a actual ITW roll, rather than a 'counts as' ITW like a mount is for a rider. We cant apply fluff and what he should/ would do to the rules, otherwise all the big heroes in LotR would be invincible and it'd be terribly broken. |
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| Author: | Dr Grant [ Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
jdizzy001 wrote: why then does he not have to roll for in the way when he shoots into a combat? because, in an exception to the normal rules for Good models, his rule specifically states that he can hit an enemy model who is in combat.I actually think this is good evidence of why he does have to randomise because if, in another exception to the normal rules, he could pick rider or mount then I think his rule would say so. Consider the rules for Black Dart that, in an exception to the normal rules, specifically state that the caster can pick rider or mount. Legolas' rules make no mention of such an exception. Furthermore, as Southy has said, on a pedantic level, the roll you make when shooting into combat is "a special In The Way" roll whereas the mount is simply treated "as if it were In The Way". a subtle difference to be sure but one that matters when people are desperately searching the rulebook for an answer that probably isn't there. I think the most important thing is that Deadly Shot allows Legolas to hit automatically and his target is the cavalry model (remember, in SBG a shooting target is a model, not a person or a monster, 1 physical model on a standard base) as the rules specifically state that you "cannot target either part specifically". |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shooting at mounts |
You had me at the black dart example. Since the rules specify on one account and not the other, I am converted. |
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