The One Ring :: View topic - Project: Númenór

The stats are good, except those for Anarion, I think he should be at least as good as Isildur (what I mean is 3 in Attack & Wound), but that's only my opinion :wink:

Those are some very cool ideas, especially the longswordman. Some thoughts on cost:

1. Steel bow is too powerful. This has been hashed out on several other threads in my recollection, but Str 4 + movement is very unbalancing. The only thing that makes xbows tolerable is no movement. IMHO, it would either need to cost 4 points, or be equivalent to a Dwarf bow. And just for game flavour reasons, it shouldn't overshadow Elves' preeminence in this area.

2. Lancer doesn't cost enough: He has Str 4, F4 and C4, but costs the same as a KoMT who has 3s. I know he has Def 5, but it's not enough.

3. I really like the longswordman and his long knife option, though in this case the points might be 1 too high. I'm thinking of the Corsair Reaver, Str 3, 2 attacks, 10 points. Longswordman with longknife has Str 4 (+1 point) and HA (+2 points) for a total of 13. Since you're turning the elf blade into a hand weapon, I think it's okay for the longknife to be 1 point.

4. Watchers seem overpriced? Maybe 14 points: 9 points for normal warrior, +2 points for armour, +2 for spear and special rule, +1 for fight and courage boost.

5. Sadly, the knights are underpriced. 3 attacks on a charge, F5, Str 4 + lance? Yikes! :shock:

One, just one, of these can charge Shagrat WarLeader with even odds and a better chance of wounding, and even if he loses priority next turn, has a decent chance of surviving a counter attack. Start with KoDA at 18 points. Add +2 for the Fight and Courage boost (charging a troll or even a wraith is pretty much guaranteed), and +1 for Str 4. Hard to know what the extra attack is worth for cavalry, but I'd say at least 6 points, if not 10. I'd rather have one of these than a Ranger of the North. So somewhere between 27 and 31 points.

Start from a Son of Eorl (22 points), -1 point from losing 12" move, +1 point for fight value, +1 point for Courage, +1 point for lance. Thus bringing him in at 24 points.

King Under the Mountain wrote:

Start from a Son of Eorl (22 points), -1 point from losing 12" move, +1 point for fight value, +1 point for Courage, +1 point for lance. Thus bringing him in at 24 points.

Son of Eorl has an SBG profile? Where?

Hallpers wrote:

The stats are good, except those for Anarion, I think he should be at least as good as Isildur (what I mean is 3 in Attack & Wound), but that's only my opinion :wink:

Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies.

whafrog wrote:

Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies.

But that Marshal profile you posted fits the bill for a mid-range Hero. Anarion was a full-blood Numenorean prince. He should be at the same level as his brother...

whafrog wrote:

Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies.

But that Marshal profile you posted fits the bill for a mid-range Hero. Anarion was a full-blood Numenorean prince. He should be at the same level as his brother...

These are NOT whafrog's rules (although good, his rules are), and so bringing up that as a point is not relevant to this discussion.

King Under the Mountain wrote:

These are NOT whafrog's rules (although good, his rules are), and so bringing up that as a point is not relevant to this discussion.

And by posting these on the internet, and asking all and sundry for their input, these aren't your rules now either...

Why not take bits of both sets, seeing as this now seems to be up for discussion and change, and try to work in harmony.

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:11 am ]
Post subject:	Project: Númenór
Hi all, I come here today bearing a revamp of the Númenórean army list, including many a new unit and hero! What spurred this idea on was the fact that despite being one of the coolest armies out there, Númenór only has a grand total of four different units, including two named heroes. So, here goes nuttin’! Heroes first, Warriors are probably going to come later. Heroes High King Elendil (as main rulebook’s Elendil. May have shield for +5 points or armored horse for +15 points.) Elendil the Faithful…………………………………………………………………………………………….Points Value: 195 This version of Elendil represents a younger Elendil, as he first leaves Númenór for Middle-Earth. Only one version of Elendil may be included in your force. F S D A W C M/W/F 6/- 4 6 3 3 6 3/2/2 Wargear: Narsil, Finely-crafted Heavy Armor, the Seeing Stones May have: Horse – 10 pts Special Rules: Narsil: As High King Elendil The Seeing Stones: Counts as the Palantír rule used by Saruman, save that this ability may be used D3 times per game, rather than once. (Roll before deployment) Anárion, Prince of Númenór………………………………………………………………………..Points Value: 90 F S D A W C M/W/F 6/- 4 6 2 2 5 3/2/2 Wargear: Sword, heavy armor May have: Shield – 5 pts Horse – 10 pts Banner of Annúminas – 50 pts Special Rules: Banner of Annúminas: This banner confers all the usual benefits of a banner. In addition, a Heroic Action called by a Hero within 6” of the Banner (including Anárion) affect all Good models within 12” of the Hero, instead of 6”. Champion of Númenór: Anárion does not suffer -1 to win the fight while wielding the Banner. In addition, while fighting at least one enemy Hero, Anárion benefits from +1 F. Isildur (as main rulebook) Númenórean Captain (as main rulebook, may take a Númenórean Longsword (Elven Blade) for +5 points, in addition to other options) Númenórean Loremaster……………………………………………………………………………………..Points Value: 65 F S D A W C M/W/F 4/- 3 5 1 2 3 1/3/1 Wargear: Armor. May Have: Horse – 10 pts Special Rules: Advisor: Good heroes within 6” of a character with the Advisor special rule, and who do not have the Advisor special rule themselves, roll a D6 each time they use a point of Might. On a 6, that Might point is immediately regained – it is effectively “free”. Magical Powers: Blinding Light. Dice score to cast: 3+ Command. Dice score to cast: 5+

Author:	whafrog [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:35 am ]
Post subject:
I don't know what those Seeing Stones are worth, but from what I can see you've given them a cost of 5-10 points max. Getting to win priority even once (as Saruman's Palantir rule) would seem to be worth a lot more than that. If you compare Saruman's profile in the OR book (with the Palantir) with that in the Fall of the Necromancer sourcebook (without it), it's a 20 point difference. So an average of 2 (d3) would make the Seeing Stones about 40 points, so Elendil the Faithful would be around 195. Otherwise I really like what you've done. Most people overpower their profiles, but IMHO you've got a nice balanced usable couple of heroes. It would be nice to see Numenor re-done, properly representing the pinnacle of the Mannish race. If you look back in this forum far enough you'll see many such threads. Example: http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewto ... c&start=20 You might like my captain and marshall

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:35 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks, whafrog, I was sort of wondering about the points myself... I think I'll bump 'em up. Also, what's your opinion on the Banner of Annuminas? That gave me the most trouble writing the rules (I had several editions, including one which granted Resistant to Magic) and I was hard-pressed to come up with a unique, yet worthwhile, banner. I'll be taking a look at that other thread, thanks

Author:	whafrog [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:
I'd say the banner is interesting, hard to know whether it's worth the points until it's playtested. Does it have normal range for non-heroes (3")? About the name...wasn't Annúminas the capital of the north kingdom (Arnor)? That was Isildur's, since Anarion stayed in the south.

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:
1) Yes, it does. 2) Yeah, I know, but I thought it'd be nice to have a change from the usual, it's still part of the Numenorian realm. Although "Banner of Osgiliath" does have a nice ring to it. The second part will be up tonight.

The One Ring http://test.one-ring.co.uk/

Project: Númenór http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14846	Page 1 of 2

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:59 am ]
Post subject:
On to part two! Warriors Númenórean Warrior (As main rulebook, save that Strength and Courage are amended to 4, and points value to 9. In addition, the cost for banners is increased to 30 points.) Númenórean Mariner………………………………………………………………………………Points Value: 10 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 4/4+...4……..4………..1……..1……..4 Wargear: Sword, armor, throwing weapons. May have: Spear – 1 pt Heavy Armor – 1 pt Steel Bow – 3 pts Steel Bow: A steel bow is a masterpiece of Númenórean artisanship. It has the following profile: Range 18” Strength 4, may not volley, -1 to hit at 12" or greater Númenórean Lancer…………………………………………………………………………….Points Value: 16 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 4/-…..4………5………..1……..1……..4 0……..3………4………..0………1……..3 Wargear: Sword, armor, shield, lance. Rides a horse. May have: Banner – 30 pts Númenórean Longswordsman…………………………………………………………………………..Points Value: 12 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 5/-……4………5……….1………1……..4 Wargear: Heavy Armor, Númenórean Longsword (counts as Elven Blade). May have: Long Knife – 1 pt Long Knife: A Longswordsman with a Longsword and a Long Knife has +1 A, but loses the ability to use the Longsword as a two-handed weapon. Watchers of Osgiliath…………………………………………………………………………………...Points Value: 15 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 5/-……4……..7………..1……..1……..5 Wargear: Mithril Armor, shield, spear Special Rules: Guardians of the City: May use their spears as pikes, which may be used in conjunction with their shields. Knights of Númenór……………………………………………………………………………………..Points Value: 22 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 5/-…..4………6………..2……..1……..5 0……..3………5…………0……..1……..3 Wargear: Heavy Armor, Shield, Lance, rides an Armored Horse. Special Rules: Expert Rider. Glorious Charge: A Knight of Númenór must always end his move closer to an enemy model than when he began it. Númenórean Onager………………………………………………………………………….Points Value: 80 Range........Strength………Defense………..Batter Points 48".............( 8 )………………..10………………………3 F……...S….….D……….A…….W…….C 4/4+…4………4………..1……..1……..4 Wargear: One Onager and three Crewmen, armed with hand weapons and armor. Special Rules: Accurate: Onagers are easier to aim than Catapults and other heavy Siege Engines. When firing an Onager at a Battlefield target the shot will Scatter only 3”/8cm rather than 6”/14cm. Area Affect: Onagers fire a multitude of small stones, showering the area in debris and ammunition. If the Onager scores a hit against a Battlefield target, all models within 2”/4cm of the target take a hit of Strength 4 (this hit does not kill Battlefield targets outright). Upgrades: Flaming Ammunition – 15 pts Superior Construction – 20 pts Extra Crewman – 9 pts Númenórean Engineer Captain – 80 pts The idea behind the conjoined list is that while the Heroes aren't truely exceptional fighters, as in Numenor every man is an elite, but through a combination of abilities they have a lot of potential to lead. The troops, while expensive, are there to lend a lot of fighting power, but will quickly crumble if left sitting around too long (especially the Knights of Numenor). C&C is appreciated.

Author:	General Haar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:36 am ]
Post subject:
Just three comments from me for now- The Lancer's banner should be more expensive, due to them being F4 S4 troops. 30 (Uruk-Hai) seems more appropriate. The Watcher's ability to throw his spear actually doesn't make much sense. Regular spears long enough to provide decent support aren't designed for flight, and once they are thrown, how do they get them back to be able to support (Plus you can't normally shoot and support in the same turn according to the rulebook)? I would drop their throwing weapons, personally. Also, you seem to have omitted the range of the Onager. I'll get to the rest later, when I'm not in a rush to get offline.

Author:	Hallpers [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:58 am ]
Post subject:
The stats are good, except those for Anarion, I think he should be at least as good as Isildur (what I mean is 3 in Attack & Wound), but that's only my opinion

Author:	whafrog [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Those are some very cool ideas, especially the longswordman. Some thoughts on cost: 1. Steel bow is too powerful. This has been hashed out on several other threads in my recollection, but Str 4 + movement is very unbalancing. The only thing that makes xbows tolerable is no movement. IMHO, it would either need to cost 4 points, or be equivalent to a Dwarf bow. And just for game flavour reasons, it shouldn't overshadow Elves' preeminence in this area. 2. Lancer doesn't cost enough: He has Str 4, F4 and C4, but costs the same as a KoMT who has 3s. I know he has Def 5, but it's not enough. 3. I really like the longswordman and his long knife option, though in this case the points might be 1 too high. I'm thinking of the Corsair Reaver, Str 3, 2 attacks, 10 points. Longswordman with longknife has Str 4 (+1 point) and HA (+2 points) for a total of 13. Since you're turning the elf blade into a hand weapon, I think it's okay for the longknife to be 1 point. 4. Watchers seem overpriced? Maybe 14 points: 9 points for normal warrior, +2 points for armour, +2 for spear and special rule, +1 for fight and courage boost. 5. Sadly, the knights are underpriced. 3 attacks on a charge, F5, Str 4 + lance? Yikes! One, just one, of these can charge Shagrat WarLeader with even odds and a better chance of wounding, and even if he loses priority next turn, has a decent chance of surviving a counter attack. Start with KoDA at 18 points. Add +2 for the Fight and Courage boost (charging a troll or even a wraith is pretty much guaranteed), and +1 for Str 4. Hard to know what the extra attack is worth for cavalry, but I'd say at least 6 points, if not 10. I'd rather have one of these than a Ranger of the North. So somewhere between 27 and 31 points. Anyway, cool ideas.

Author:	whafrog [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Hallpers wrote: The stats are good, except those for Anarion, I think he should be at least as good as Isildur (what I mean is 3 in Attack & Wound), but that's only my opinion Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies.

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:27 am ]
Post subject:
whafrog wrote: Those are some very cool ideas, especially the longswordman. Some thoughts on cost: 1. Steel bow is too powerful. This has been hashed out on several other threads in my recollection, but Str 4 + movement is very unbalancing. The only thing that makes xbows tolerable is no movement. IMHO, it would either need to cost 4 points, or be equivalent to a Dwarf bow. And just for game flavour reasons, it shouldn't overshadow Elves' preeminence in this area. Cost increased to 3 points, and -1 to hit at 12" +. Quote: 2. Lancer doesn't cost enough: He has Str 4, F4 and C4, but costs the same as a KoMT who has 3s. I know he has Def 5, but it's not enough. Noted. Quote: 3. I really like the longswordman and his long knife option, though in this case the points might be 1 too high. I'm thinking of the Corsair Reaver, Str 3, 2 attacks, 10 points. Longswordman with longknife has Str 4 (+1 point) and HA (+2 points) for a total of 13. Since you're turning the elf blade into a hand weapon, I think it's okay for the longknife to be 1 point. True, hadn't thought of it like that. Points decreased. Quote: 4. Watchers seem overpriced? Maybe 14 points: 9 points for normal warrior, +2 points for armour, +2 for spear and special rule, +1 for fight and courage boost. Hmm, true, but I think all stats should be priced seperately. 15 points. Quote: 5. Sadly, the knights are underpriced. 3 attacks on a charge, F5, Str 4 + lance? Yikes! One, just one, of these can charge Shagrat WarLeader with even odds and a better chance of wounding, and even if he loses priority next turn, has a decent chance of surviving a counter attack. Start with KoDA at 18 points. Add +2 for the Fight and Courage boost (charging a troll or even a wraith is pretty much guaranteed), and +1 for Str 4. Hard to know what the extra attack is worth for cavalry, but I'd say at least 6 points, if not 10. I'd rather have one of these than a Ranger of the North. So somewhere between 27 and 31 points. I agree they might need a price hike, so let's work it with the Attack included in the cost. Start from a Son of Eorl (22 points), -1 point from losing 12" move, +1 point for fight value, +1 point for Courage, +1 point for lance. Thus bringing him in at 24 points. However, we haven't accounted for Glorious Charge. This rule is a HUGE disadvantage to these guys, as they'll hit hard after their first charge, but then they won't be able to call a Heroic Move and retreat, they're stuck there. For the moment 22 points seems reasonable. Quote: Anyway, cool ideas. Thangyouvrymuch

Author:	whafrog [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:44 am ]
Post subject:
King Under the Mountain wrote: Start from a Son of Eorl (22 points), -1 point from losing 12" move, +1 point for fight value, +1 point for Courage, +1 point for lance. Thus bringing him in at 24 points. Son of Eorl has an SBG profile? Where?

Author:	Hallpers [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:41 am ]
Post subject:
whafrog wrote: Hallpers wrote: The stats are good, except those for Anarion, I think he should be at least as good as Isildur (what I mean is 3 in Attack & Wound), but that's only my opinion Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies. Yeah... Good point.

Author:	King Dain Ironfoot [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:34 am ]
Post subject:
whafrog wrote: Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies. But that Marshal profile you posted fits the bill for a mid-range Hero. Anarion was a full-blood Numenorean prince. He should be at the same level as his brother...

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Author:	Hallpers [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:
King Dain Ironfoot wrote: whafrog wrote: Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies. But that Marshal profile you posted fits the bill for a mid-range Hero. Anarion was a full-blood Numenorean prince. He should be at the same level as his brother... Another good point... Maybe his stats could be something like this (scroll down), but with some changes?

Author:	King Under the Mountain [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:25 am ]
Post subject:
King Dain Ironfoot wrote: whafrog wrote: Actually I kind of liked this downgrade, sort of like Faramir to Boromir. Also makes him more usable in smaller armies. But that Marshal profile you posted fits the bill for a mid-range Hero. Anarion was a full-blood Numenorean prince. He should be at the same level as his brother... These are NOT whafrog's rules (although good, his rules are), and so bringing up that as a point is not relevant to this discussion. However, that being said, in light of recent comments, Anarion's M is now 3 and his F is 6, to make him a cut above regular Captains. Accordingly, points have increased.

Author:	gaarew [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 7:04 am ]
Post subject:
King Under the Mountain wrote: These are NOT whafrog's rules (although good, his rules are), and so bringing up that as a point is not relevant to this discussion. And by posting these on the internet, and asking all and sundry for their input, these aren't your rules now either... Why not take bits of both sets, seeing as this now seems to be up for discussion and change, and try to work in harmony.