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The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
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Author:  ElfGeneral [ Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Having looked through the apparent releases for the Hobbit and being particularly interested in elves I thought I would analyse them a bit more, there seems to be a big group of new seemingly cheap heroes (I've never heard of most of them so it is unlikely they'll be as expensive as Glorfindel and Elrond), a selection of new troops and a lot of new miniatures for current characters that already have models.

I am particularly wondering what other people think what will be metal, plastic, finecast, what do you think some of the more unusual models will look like and what you think the new heroes and units will be like I have put a few of my thoughts in but really interested in what other people think (if anyone with a better knowledge of tolkien lore could explain who the new heroes are that would be great)

New models of old characters
Arwen
Galadriel (Barrel)
Radagast
Galadriel (Water Steed) - I think this maybe a diorama of some description like is it the Death of Gothmog or something and Gimli on Uruk
Galadriel (They REALLY love Galadriel it would seem)
Elrond
Cirdan the Shipwright
Thranduil (Battle Garb)
Radagast's Chariot/Spellfire Cart - ????????????????????
War Council - I think this is just a group box for the white Council but they already released one called that so this will likely be the equivalent but with the new models

New Heroes:

Lindar the Harper
Estel
Chief Aravir - I know some people are angry that this guy exists but the Dunedain would have a command structure so it makes sense that they would have leaders other than Aragorn
Dunedain Runecaster - the sbg fan boy in me loves this idea but the tolkien purist part wants to cry a little
Elros
Tauriel (mounted) - Intresting they mounted a wood elf hero possible wood elf cavalry may make an appearance :-D
Castallen Amroth - I have no idea what or who he/she/it/they is/are if anyone know please explain

New units :D :rofl: (I'm so happy about these it's not even funny) :rofl: :D

Mounted Rivendell Nobles - Mounted - on horse, Nobles - well equipped, well armoured and skilled warriors, Rivendell - Imladris, Last Homely House East of the Sea WAIT!!!!!!!!! WE ACTUALLY GOT CAVALRY FOR RIVENDELL :D :D :D :yay: :yay: 8) 8) 8)
Lorien Drumhooves - I don't know what these are Drum - maybe some sort of Courage buff, Hooves - cavalry YAY but wait will they be more heavierly armoured or less than the current knights (it could be heavier the drum bit may mean like weight as in the drumbeat of hooves if that makes any sense)
Dunedain Rangers -Not elves as such but nice to see the grey company getting some love (I put them in as I usually have some grey company in my elf army)
Rivendell Spearguard - don't know what these guys will be maybe replace the current spear models personally I hope Spearguard as in like Vanguard rather than guards with spears meaning it is just a fancy name for that plastic box of high elves we've all been waiting for :D :D I live in hope
Rivendell Outriders - lightly armoured and cheaper knight great from theme and tactical options :yay: Very good I'm a happy man
Mirkwood Warhost - if the knights made me happy this made me overjoyed beyond words if this is what it sound like (a whooping great big box of wood elves) I am a very very happy man and will likely purchase like 3 on release day (and then almost kill my self trying to paint them all)
Author:  Constantine [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
I didn't see the Dunedain Runecaster when I read the allegedly upcoming releases list. This is preposterous. I really don't mind most of the stuff GW has added up to this point, but straying so far off the lore... I can't imagine how they'll get the approval from New Line (or whoever they need to ask). These are my thoughts on the Dwarf Boar Riders as well. It would look hilarious and add variety to their armies, but it is extremely alien to the Tolkien universe and even their humorous aspect isn't befitting for the world of Middle Earth.
Other than that I am likewise excited about the forthcoming Elves and most especially the box set!! Although me and my bro play Dwarves this can be a sufficient incentive to start an Elven force to battle the fat ones.
Regarding lore, I haven't read The Hobbit in a while and I don't want to misinform you, but from what I remember I can't recall any of the new named heroes.
Come on people I'm really looking forward for your comments as well. Maybe we can add the other releases, according to faction, on this thread as well.
Author:  ElfGeneral [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Constantine wrote:
I didn't see the Dunedain Runecaster when I read the allegedly upcoming releases list. This is preposterous. I really don't mind most of the stuff GW has added up to this point, but straying so far off the lore... I can't imagine how they'll get the approval from New Line (or whoever they need to ask). These are my thoughts on the Dwarf Boar Riders as well. It would look hilarious and add variety to their armies, but it is extremely alien to the Tolkien universe and even their humorous aspect isn't befitting for the world of Middle Earth.
Other than that I am likewise excited about the forthcoming Elves and most especially the box set!! Although me and my bro play Dwarves this can be a sufficient incentive to start an Elven force to battle the fat ones.
Regarding lore, I haven't read The Hobbit in a while and I don't want to misinform you, but from what I remember I can't recall any of the new named heroes.
Come on people I'm really looking forward for your comments as well. Maybe we can add the other releases, according to faction, on this thread as well.


thanks for commenting :) I have being doing some quick google and wiki searches and have some very interesting information on the new heroes

Estel - I originally thought this was a woman but it apparently mean hope in elvish and was ARAGORN'S name as a child
Elros - the name of the first king of Numenor I would have dismissed this had it not been for Turin also being on the possible releases
Lindar the Harper - Lindar is the name of a first age character (I'm seeing a theme) but the Harper bit is new maybe a hero for Sentinels / or with the same type of 'magic abilities'

I don't want this to take away from the elf theme but i have some thoughts on the dwarves as well


Heroes
Kili and Fili
Bombur
Drogo Baggins
Tavern Maid
Dain
King Thrain
Young Thorin
King Thror
Dain Ironfoot
Dis
Gimli (Stubble)
Samwise (Red Book)

Units
Longbeard Archers
Iron Hill Berserkers
Longbeard Vanguard
Longbeard Mattockguard
Dragon Mithril Company of Dwarves
Iron Hill Boar Riders

most heroes here are standard fair as in easily explained in terms of story apart from a few

Dis, Drogo, Tavern maid - I think they will be like the non fellowship hobbits as in they are story important but aren't really used in battles.
Gimli (Stubble) - ?????????? no idea, maybe they think everyone loves Gimli why not release him again
Samwise Gamgee (Red Book) - we know the story is done as a re-telling by Blibo, the story is written in a red book I'm thinking it is more of a collectors piece than a gaming piece

as far as models go
Longbeards - three varieties clearly a new type of a dwarf maybe and upgrade with higher fight and courage
Dragon Mithril Company of Dwarves - Really, Really high defence dwarves (like D9) great but especially with the above do Dwarves really need more elite high defence troops I mean Khazad guard, Iron Guard, the Murin and Dhar upgrades and the three new longbeards units how many copies of the same concept do Dwarves need.
Iron Hill Boar Riders - I really really really really hope this is just GW thing and not a Peter Jackson idea that will be in the film, I accept that Dain could arrive mounted to differentiate himself from the other 15 or so Dwarf heroes especially for non LOTR fans that might get a bit lost otherwise but if the're in the film I might cry. On the bright side as a tactical option Dwarfs really need something different from slow moving elite heavily armoured guys as I mentioned above.
Author:  Constantine [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
... Yes you are right Estel was Aragorn's childhood name and Elros is Elros Tar Miniatos the first king of Numenor. Drogo as far as I remember is the father of Frodo. Samwise was the holder of the Red Book after Bilbo and then it was given to his children. This is a parenthesis, you are right let's keep these post Elvish!! They need some love too.
Author:  Telchar [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
I hope Iron Hill Boarriders (even Dain on a Boar would ruin the bloody movie for me) and Dunedain Runecasters are just jokes or something GW made up and will get boycotted by the community. The rest have got me contemplating buying from GW again (breaking a hundred sacred vows made after the plastic box halving).
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
ElfGeneral wrote:
Estel Aragorn as a kid, very happy about this
Chief Aravir - I know some people are angry that this guy exists but the Dunedain would have a command structure so it makes sense that they would have leaders other than Aragorn Chief Aravir lived a few hundred years before the time of the Hobbit. This should be Chief Arathorn.
Dunedain Runecaster - the sbg fan boy in me loves this idea but the tolkien purist part wants to cry a little I really don't know about this one.
Elros Elrond's human brother who has been dead for almost 6,000 years.

Also, the Drumhooves just means that the hooves make a drumming sound when they ride.
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
I'm exited about the new releases like everyone else, especially for new high elf units. But the thing that I want to know the most is if profiles are going to be released for WOTR or not. Especially because that could mean WOTR might get a second edition to go along with the film that has the battle of 5 armies.

But I'm getting distracted, It would be nice to see a high eleven profile with a basic warrior having 2A like iron guard. Also it would be nice to get a cheap(like 20-40)pt elven hero similar to damrod/ranger of arnor.
multiple cav options for Elfs seem to be comming in the future which is lovely, but I am worried about their cost in points because the less skilled galadhrim knights are almost 20pts each so having better skilled soldiers with better armor will get expensive. I'm thinking maybe 20-25pts per model.
Oh well I'll still use them. 8)
Also wood elf war host!!! Definatly going to buy one of those. :D
Author:  Shieldmaiden [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
@Haldir - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23525

Check out my ideas for Rivendell Cavalry.
Author:  ElfGeneral [ Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Draugluin wrote:
ElfGeneral wrote:
Estel Aragorn as a kid, very happy about this
Chief Aravir - I know some people are angry that this guy exists but the Dunedain would have a command structure so it makes sense that they would have leaders other than Aragorn Chief Aravir lived a few hundred years before the time of the Hobbit. This should be Chief Arathorn.
Dunedain Runecaster - the sbg fan boy in me loves this idea but the tolkien purist part wants to cry a little I really don't know about this one.
Elros Elrond's human brother who has been dead for almost 6,000 years.

Also, the Drumhooves just means that the hooves make a drumming sound when they ride.


I'm seeing a growing theme of pre hobbit things like Turin, Elros (I think him and Elrond are released together so the bro thing is probable right) and poss. Lindar as well could GW be expanding into first age stuff but then they would need the rights which New Line has so is PJ going first age??????

Chief Aravir - he doesn't seems to fit into any of time periods, why is here there might GW just being copying a name and making a new character

Estel - Again if this is Aragorn (he was raised by elves so being released with them makes sense + the model is being released in a pack with Arwen) he doesn't fit in to the LOTR, Hobbit or first age periods so why make him unless there is a scene in the hobbit of a young Aragorn?????

Lastly the Drumhooves thing I have decided there Lothlorien heavy cavalry not riders with drums

WhoelsebutHaldir wrote:
I'm exited about the new releases like everyone else, especially for new high elf units. But the thing that I want to know the most is if profiles are going to be released for WOTR or not. Especially because that could mean WOTR might get a second edition to go along with the film that has the battle of 5 armies.

But I'm getting distracted, It would be nice to see a high eleven profile with a basic warrior having 2A like iron guard. Also it would be nice to get a cheap(like 20-40)pt elven hero similar to damrod/ranger of arnor.
multiple cav options for Elfs seem to be comming in the future which is lovely, but I am worried about their cost in points because the less skilled galadhrim knights are almost 20pts each so having better skilled soldiers with better armor will get expensive. I'm thinking maybe 20-25pts per model.
Oh well I'll still use them. 8)
Also wood elf war host!!! Definatly going to buy one of those. :D


As an avid player of WOTR I share your desire for a 2nd edition (the game is broken but with a few tweaks especially on unit pricing and it will be great) I think we might be in luck as well, people have said that there would be no second edition because the hobbit will be the main source of everyone's attention for the next 5 years or so and most of the major scenes from the films will be better in sbg (BOTFA being the exception) like the the encounter with the trolls Troll and the white council in Dol Guldur but with with news of a third film coming out and recent information for PJ it seems the White Council part has been massively expanded (also GW are releasing units not just heroes under the title of the White Council) the BOTFA is in there but also I think the Battle of Az.... whatever it's called where the Dwarfs and Goblin have that big fight and Smaugs destruction of both Erebor and Dale will all be in the films as well so that's 5 or so major WOTR sized conflicts between the films. Lastly from a business point of view after all the models from the first film have been released and there is a gap before the second movie it would be a great way to keep people interested or you could release it a few month after the last film to keep people interested for a few month longer.

2A elves would be great especially given there high cost

Lastly any thoughts on this Lindar the Harper character????
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Interesting ideas about the possible release of a second edition of WOTR. I'm certainly hoping you are right!
What battle between dwarfs and goblins are you referring to? Goblin town?
I have no idea about lindar the Harper.

Shieldmaiden wrote:
@Haldir - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23525

Check out my ideas for Rivendell Cavalry.


I think I saw that earlier, anyway my concern would be with the fact that heavy armor+lance+shield+armored horse+special rule(s) could get very expensive, that combo I just mentioned is at least 20pts.

Good job on the house rule ones 8) I really like the scout idea :yay:
Author:  ElfGeneral [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
[quote="WhoelsebutHaldir"]Interesting ideas about the possible release of a second edition of WOTR. I'm certainly hoping you are right!
What battle between dwarfs and goblins are you referring to? Goblin town? [quote]

I hope I'm right to :) I was talking about the Battle of Azanulbizar and the War of the Dwarves and Orcs that sets up some of Thorins story (the oakensheild bit), why the goblins don't like the dwarves and the Blog/Azog story
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Oh ok that makes sense.
Do you think that there is going to be extensive coverage of that? I think so seeing as there is going to be 3films but who knows?
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
OMG...Dwarf Boar Riders??? Dunedain Runecaster??? Galadriel (Water Steed) WFT?

I would say without doubt that this would NOT be a PJ thing if it wasn't for one fact...a Dwarf with an axe head sticking out of his hair. That has shaken my faith as bad as Jar Jar did. If we get Boar Riders or Galadriel riding on some enchanted water steed from PJ I'm probably going to cry. If we get them from GW only I'll not be surprised in the slightest. The Dwarves would probably also be swinging mighty two handed axes that are as broad as their own shoulders.

I really look forward to some new options to add to my Mirkwood Elf army for sure. There's just not much variety there and despite the fact that you can make a very effective and competitive army with them (at least under LoME rules I had a very solid win record), they end up looking the same every time I came to the table. Ent or Eagle allies were about the only real variety. I'd like some new options as long as they are more ME than 40K.
Author:  Draugluin [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Galadriel on a steed made of water actually makes sense. 1. Look at what Elrond did with the Bruinen river, 2. Look at how Gandalf made that river look, 3. She does have the Ring of Water (assuming of course that the name of the ring gives the wearer any special skill with that substance. I think it does, which explains why Gandalf could slay the Balrog (a being of fire) because he had the Ring of Fire, as well as the other times that he created fire (Caradhras, the wargs in the Hobbit).) I think that the only reason why she would do that is when she's actually going to battle against the Necromancer. Now, the other stuff kinda worries me too. I could see the Runecaster as being semi canon, considering that Malbeth was in Arnor, maybe some of his descendants have some ability that sets them apart. Boar Riders, NO. As for Bofur(?) having the axe in his head, I can kinda see why it would be left in. 1. Dwarves are manly, that's a manly wound, and 2. It might have killed him to take it out. Of course, that wasn't ever mentioned in the book, but neither was Bombur's neck-braid-lace.
Author:  Shieldmaiden [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Re: Galadriel (Water Steed).

It might just be a new standalone miniature like the Mirror of Galadriel, representing a newer/different version of Nature's Wrath.
Author:  ElfGeneral [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Beowulf03809 wrote:
OMG...Dwarf Boar Riders??? Dunedain Runecaster??? Galadriel (Water Steed) WFT?


As much as the Boar Riders worry me I specifically made this post to analyse the elves and not to just descend into the boar riders are stupid so argument if we could keep the conversation away from Boar Riders that would be great, but all means complain about the Runecaster and Galadriel as much as you want

Two things that intrigue me are:
Galadriel Barrel - any ideas what this is
Radagast Chariot/spellfire cart - what the hell is this but more to the point how will it be done in game and will you be using it
Author:  Draugluin [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Radagast's Chariot is going to be how he gets around in the movie, it's a chariot (more like a sled from what I've heard) pulled by rabbits and various other woodland creatures. As for the Spellfire Cart, maybe a new version of Gandalf's cart?
Author:  WhoelsebutHaldir [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
RE: Galadriel Barrel

I was thinking about when the dwarves are escaping thranduil and the wood elves. But that does not make any sense given the fact she WAS NOT THERE. But maybe P.J will have her end up there somehow, involving the necromancer. Which kind of freaks me out now that I think about it...
Author:  Telchar [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
RE Galadriel (barrel): She'll most likely be Galadriel riding a huge enchanted barrel with great big snapping teeth and swinging a huge sword while shooting laser bolts from her fingers. But seriously, I have no idea how Galadriel could end up involved in the barrel scene from the hobbit.

RE: Radagast: Draugluin, are you serious?!?
Author:  ElfGeneral [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The elves of the Hobbit, thoughts?
Telchar wrote:
RE Galadriel (barrel): She'll most likely be Galadriel riding a huge enchanted barrel with great big snapping teeth and swinging a huge sword while shooting laser bolts from her fingers.


That would fit in perfectly with tolkien lore so I can see no problems there, I often wondered why it took GW so long to get the lasermounted elf 'warbarrel' out when tolkein wrote so much about them in his books

[quote=''Telchar'']RE: Radagast: Draugluin, are you serious?!?[/quote]

about the bunny sled apparently yeah (it was shown in one of the previews) but personally I think it will be driven by 'the forces of nature' as in whatever animal is the most fitting for the environment or occasion so not always bunnies
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