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| Saving the Tainted http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30624 |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Saving the Tainted |
I've spent the last two days reading post after post absolutely trashing the fella, so I figured I'd speak up for him. Because he can't talk. Because he's a miniature gaming figure. Let's start with his weaknesses: -Hurts your troops as much as he does your opponent's. -Only one Might and Fate. The first, you can work around quite easily, the second, especially lack of fate, is the only thing I genuinely worry about when using him. Other than that, his effects are almost game breaking, no stand fast, no heroic moves? You can win games just by having him stand there, he won me a tournament once without really doing anything with magic, just stood there and Aragorn became useless and sad. He is one of those heroes that are absolutely terrible until you learn how to use them, not to say that I've even come close to mastering him, there's a big learning curve, but that effect is too powerful to be neglected. I would have liked to write more, but I'm doing this from my phone. Feel free to discuss more until I get on a computer. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
I'd agree that offensively his abilities are strong, but they hurt you more than your opponent. As Mordor, your courage is most likely lower than your opponent's and they only way to prevent his effects from hurting you is to move him by himself, which is a bad choice |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
is he worth fell beasting up to just flank your opponent? |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
JamesR wrote: I'd agree that offensively his abilities are strong, but they hurt you more than your opponent. As Mordor, your courage is most likely lower than your opponent's and they only way to prevent his effects from hurting you is to move him by himself, which is a bad choice Well, yes, but you can work that into your army; Shamans come to mind. The no-heroic-move bubble is trickier, I'll grant you that, that just takes lots of getting used to with reading the game and knowing where to place him (on a sidenote, has he been faq-ed to include heroic marches as well?). Grungehog wrote: is he worth fell beasting up to just flank your opponent? I would say no, he's very vulnerable to getting shot up, with only one fate and all, Fell Beast puts a bigger target on his back. I've never tried him on FB so this is pure speculation, but I imagine he needs all the cover he can get. He's the least "point-and-click" of all the Ringwraiths, takes more care to build into an army, but my experience with him has so far only been positive. |
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| Author: | Frêrin [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
JamesR wrote: but they hurt you more than your opponent. Can't you use a shaman to solve this problem? Fury isn't standfast... |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
True, but this only works for orcs, not any other troop type. So black Numenorians, Uruks, trolls etc cannot benefit from this |
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| Author: | Frêrin [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
But Tainted, KoU on fellbeast Shaman + Morannons could do well. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
Your Aragorn example is a once in 50 game occurrence. I'm not trying to argue. I'm sure people can find use but there is such an arsenal of wraith powers to waste on choosing him. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Your Aragorn example is a once in 50 game occurrence. I'm not trying to argue. I'm sure people can find use but there is such an arsenal of wraith powers to waste on choosing him. I think the Tainted is also the only Wraith whose power backfires. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
JamesR wrote: True, but this only works for orcs, not any other troop type. So black Numenorians, Uruks, trolls etc cannot benefit from this You are correct, he pretty much limits your army to the same faction as whatever kind of Shaman you have (or all-hero). He definitely won't fit into just any army, you have to build around him. LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Your Aragorn example is a once in 50 game occurrence. I'm not trying to argue. I'm sure people can find use but there is such an arsenal of wraith powers to waste on choosing him. Let's not call it an argument, the whole reason I opened this thread is to see why it is that people disagree with me, you're simply stating your opinion and I am here to respect that. Having said that, I don't think my Aragorn example is a rare occurrence. It has happened in each of the (admittedly few, it was one tournament, I just mentioned the game that won me the tourney) games I used him in. By being within range of an enemy hero, especially the big might machines, he completely shuts down their ability to lead. Dikey wrote: I think the Tainted is also the only Wraith whose power backfires. I think he'd be far too powerful if it didn't. I already find him incredibly powerful if you can keep him alive. So, it's all about the point that LotBR makes, is there a time when you can justify taking him over any of the other Ringwraiths? The others are far more straightforward, plug them into almost any army and they will work just fine. This is certainly not the case for Tainty, he will most definitely backfire if misused. Now, I'm suggesting that, if you work around his drawbacks, his set of rules is actually the most powerful of the nine (big claim, I know, but he essentially shuts down the defining characteristics of your opponent's army, that's a huge power). Will there be a time when he's worth it? What elements does he need in an army to work to his best potential? That's what I'm hoping to get to the bottom of with this thread. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
Yeah man I didn't mean argument I meant I don't want it to sound that way. What I overall feel is against me(I almost never use huge point heroes-and if I do they can maneuver away) so youd be hard pressed to find an army I use where he was worth it. I know players(and this is where it would work) who take a big hero every time they play...but I still find it more of an annoyance than an end all in a game. Let's put it this way...I'm not the best player but I've found very few tactical things that ever made me sweat, and that usually only has happened from army building. The best players I've played have definitely hurt me but it's never been one piece. A combination. How about this..... At 750 points take the Tainted and Dwimmerlaik? Then you have one bubble of No actions and when they move out of it they have to pay twice the might will or fate....then bring a ton of Orcs and a shade.... |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
Aye, you bring up a fair point. It really depends on how your games typically go; for me, games I play are very often defined by that one key heroic move, get it and you're suddenly in control. While the Tainted shuts that down for both players, you can at least position him in such a way to minimize damage on you while hurting your opponent (part of the learning curve). There are the armies that really don't care who has priority, those really hurt the Tainted, but more often than not, he does have an impact (in my experience). A good army is never about one model, there's always synergy involved, that is very correct. I was also thinking of the Dwimmerlaik as Tainty's perfect partner. My biggest problem with Tainty is his sole fate point, Legolas loves facing him more than any other Ringwraith. Dwim makes him harder to wound, and then, as you say, he gives you lots of options with the bubbles they create. A Shaman is necessary, and this needs to be one of those armies I was talking about that doesn't care who has priority (so, the Orc horde with Shade is a very good suggestion). |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Saving the Tainted |
You can also have a theme of the old age(dont know if this fluff makes sense or not...I never get these tough timeline questions right it seems) but maybe you can use those wraiths, some shamans, and put in a few warbands of hunter orcs as an early age force.... Hunter orcs basically dont give a damn about priority. Because either youre charging them constantly, or they charge you and you still counter charge and swarm. |
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