Trolls 22/06

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:18 pm

Many thanks.
I've just noticed I've put the same side view photo on, I will correct this later.

John · **Posted:** Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:52 pm

I'm in awe of that painting. Some of the best skin I have seen. If I was to attempt to replicate this I wouldn't even know where to begin. I am totally JEALOUS!

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:52 am

Very kind words John. I believe most of us can do this, it's just about learning and experimenting.
The key for me is watering everything down and applying many many thin layers. Sometimes I get my paints too thin but that's what I'm working on. Using a glaze medium helps keep the pigments together when thinning the paints and therefore smoother coverage.
If you want some help and advice then I will do my best for you, all you have to do is ask.

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:51 pm

Here are the final two trolls all painted up and ready for the diorama. To complete these in a month is a bit of a breakthrough for me. I found by the last one that I was able to work on the blending better and a little quicker.
I hope you like them and as ever I would appreciate some brutal feedback please.

I will be uploading these to my CMON page if you could vote, thanks for looking.

Constantine · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:37 pm

Extremely realistic skin gradations. Also their spotlessly painted faces convey each Trolls character perfectly!

Gene Parmesan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:46 pm

Great work. Can't think of any other feedback really.

Hodush · **Posted:** Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 am

Excellent stuff, looks fantastic!
Brutally nitpicky feedback: For me, its just a milli-fraction too bright on the extreme highlights. I get that you are probably going for a light source above/behind but I think the faces & tops of heads don't really follow the same source - the rest of the body is spot on though.
The first thing that stoof out to me was the eyes - you did such a good job on the skin tone that the whites look off - im not going to say do it again at all as they are still excellently done, but a slight yellow or red tinge in the whites would have gone down well. I presume the eyes were done first though!
All the above is being extremely nitpicky, awesome work man!

Harfoot · **Posted:** Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:26 pm

No brutal feedback needed, superb paint job IMO, don't touch them, they are perfect

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:13 pm

Thank you for the feedback.
Hodush - the camera has highlighted the head a little more than in reality, but you are right in that I have used zenithal light source for the figures.
I also didn't think these were too bad but CMON has slaughtered them, my best troll only 6.3 !!! I know they operate on a much higher level but that score leaves me a little deflated and thinking how on earth can I improve ???

Minimal Monkey Saddle · **Joined:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 8:55 pm **Posts:** 463

You are definitely deserving of a higher score than that! The skin looks fantastic with a lot more texture than I seem to remember being on the models.

JamesR · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:01 pm

They do look quite good. My only thing I could say in any form of critique is they're a little yellow to my taste, not that they need match the movies exactly by any means, but the yellow I believe may be the reason why they have the score they do on CMON.
That being said they look superb. I'm always amazed by the color progressions you manage to achieve on your models. Do you use any kind of retardant to allow for greater blending time on the model?

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:09 pm

JamesR wrote:

Do you use any kind of retardant to allow for greater blending time on the model?

I have previously used a glaze medium to keep the colours going but on this occasion I simply watered my paint slightly about 2 parts water 1 part paint.
What you see though is many many coats. I applied a lot of mid tone colours to smooth the blend, in fact I constantly worked on this.

Sithious · **Posted:** Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:48 pm

These are beautiful, very well done.
Don't worry about CMON, there are more factors to consider.
1 - Hobbit has always been put down among all other model companies fans, I don't get it either, but for some reason they hate these models while we love them... whatever though right?
2 - As you said, the painting level there is phenomenal and so a 6 is actually pretty good... consider it several 7-9 scores from people who like and know the models as well as recognize the paint skill and several 3-5 scores from ignorant WHF and 40K fans that are just hating... it is the internet, trolls will troll your troll to make you as angry as a troll.
3 - Are they based? I think on CMON they are very picky and you may be losing points for not having it based.

Anyway. if I was comparing troll to troll, I have only seen a few of these painted up over the year and change, and yours are right up there on top with Mertaal's Troll. Very well done.

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:50 am

Fortunately the score has gone up but I have identified some areas for improvement, more transition between cold and warm colours to extenuate the definition.
It's all a learning curve and once this diorama is finished I need to work on some serious painting.

Fëanor, the mighty elf · **Posted:** Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:13 pm

Wow, fantastic work, once more! :yay:

It's hard to believe these are indeed made of plastic.
Looking forward to what you do next.

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:10 pm

Thanks Feanor, I am really appreciative of your comment and all those who have. The diorama is tasking shape nicely. I have scratch built some trees and added them.
There are some other concepts I have thrown at it and I believe some of them have not been seem, or at least very seldom.
Needless to say there have been more learning curves I have gone through.

Gandlaf the Grey · **Posted:** Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:53 am

While there are discussions on CMON, I have been in discussion with one of the top painters there about my trolls. Our reference was the close up picture.
He rated the skin work as an 8-9 which I find as a massive compliment and yet goes to show how some LOTR entries are regarded.
I can accept mine would never be a 10 but I would expect around an 8 where the current level is 6.2 !!!
It is a difficult site to reach high levels but those levels are what we want to hit, so try and try I will.

Son of Fundin · **Joined:** Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:04 pm **Posts:** 258

I agree with you there, I've already seen lots of people there saying it was a great piece and vote a 6! I think you should check the link in your signature, when I enter it, I can only see the whole galery, not your miniatures...

I've just discovered one little thing, I would critizise: Oh the last picture of the trolls some brown colour got ob the skin... Nevertheless these are great looking models with very good colour transition! And a 6.2 is absolutely underrated...

Harfoot · **Posted:** Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:07 pm

really surprised about the 6.2 its far better than that. don't forget the photos are never as good as real life. Also i think some entries the people have some really good cameras. IMO it should be 8-9

Thao · **Joined:** Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:10 pm **Posts:** 179

I'm not really surprised about the score. There are several things which have to be taken into account when evaluating cmon scores (just my humble observation):
- The world's best painters put their work on cmon and have set the expectation-
- every day many painters put up work which is just better than ours - its hard to catch attention with such competition
- you can only vote full numbers, thus if your aim is a rating of 8, the piece must be 9 for quite a number of voters, as some will underrate due to personal taste or whatever (and a rating of 9 is very hard to achieve)
- picture quality is very important, your pictures are ok, but not top level
- you put up a WIP piece, as it will become a diorama, but cmon is not for WIP pieces = people will judge as final (not matter what you tell them), thus if you want a good score, put up the diorama with perfect photos - presentation is king
- you have only slightly influenced the voting by telling here that you have put up the pieces on cmon - some influence more and get many votings of people they know - rating goes up (not wise if you want to know the "real" score)
- for a rating of 8 and above you need more than just good painting - e.g. a good idea (and a diorama is definitly a chance for good ideas)

Short version: Your painting is better than the rating, but you need better presentation of it.

Having said these things, I have issues to take them into account when putting up pictures on cmon - as it is quite some work besides the painting.

Trolls 22/06

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