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Durin's Stone - try number ?
http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30889		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Mapper [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Durin's Stone - try number ?
Why waiting for the weather to get warmer so I can base my Uruk Hai, I thought I would try several woodland scenic products I have.

My next miniatures I will be painting will be Balin retaking Moria so I thought I would try doing Durin's Stone.

I didn't just want to put a pillar next to a random spot next to a lake so I put it on a stone jutting out. I also wanted to try doing a reflection in the water. My first attempt (didn't take a picture) was just pouring Realistic Water on top of a photo but that didn't look very good. I found a painting of a mountain reflection and I printed it on vellum to give it a bit of transparency.

This is just a "dry run" of trying this technique on top of a piece of Shaper Sheet. Still undecided on the Shaper Sheet, easy to form but without support underneath or plaster on top, easy to deform also.

Anyway, here is my attempt. Didn't do too much on the scenery around the lake, was focused on how the water looked.

First picture is from the top showing the reflection better. When I poured the Realistic Water on top of the photo it warped the photo, I had only glued it down on the sides.

Image

Other shots.

Image

Image

Image
Author:  orc-archer [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone
Stunning!

Poor Balin thought.
Author:  Gandlaf the Grey [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone
Nice idea but I feel there is too much movement for a pond. It needs to be flatter with very slight ripples, only a hint.
Uim thinking about the reflection. Another method could be the pint your image on the water then apply another thin layer on top to seal it.
You would have already painted the bottom of the pond before your first layer of water so could have some nice contrast.
Author:  Mapper [ Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone
I agree about too much ripple, it was rather unexpected. I believe the whole print needs to be glued down, not just the edges. I think if I do a thin layer of water, then the vellum, then some more water it might add some more depth.
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone
Modge Podge has a product designed for embedding Photos.Check the website for tips.

I like this idea. The rest of the pond looks very good.

I have not tried the shaper sheet. I have found shells work best for steep surfaces like cliffs. A shell normally requires some kind of support. Keep experimenting. 8)

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=utu ... EC371ED744
Author:  Mapper [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone
So basically decoupage the photo? Will have to do some experimenting. Thanks for the idea.
Author:  Mapper [ Sat May 02, 2015 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Second try on this, used a thin layer of glue on the whole sheet vs just the edges, but the Realistic Water still seems to pull it up and ripple - just not as bad. Don't know if the effort is worth the result when I do a bigger lake.

Might have to try one more time before I decide.

Image

Image
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Sat May 02, 2015 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Hmm difficult one to get around that. it is the shrinkage of the realistic water that is causing the problem as it dries. You could try and coat the top of the picture in PVA glue to add some strength before pouring your water effects. Personally i think it looks great man but if you are going to give it another go try and add some strength to the picture base before you pour the water.

Great idea!
Author:  Dorthonion [ Sun May 03, 2015 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
I think I would go for darker water than that. I have tramped around many mountains (and up, down and all over them as well) and I don't ever recall seeing a tropical coloured lake on even one of them. A few had little sandy beaches but uplands tend to be a bit boggy and acidic so the water tends to be quite dark.
Like Guinness really, minus the froth....
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Sun May 03, 2015 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
I would experiment more. It is avery interesting Idea, 72 hours drying time before adding gloss seems to be a consensus,I would use glue rated for outdoor use too. Fabric glue can be used in the wash. I have not tried your idea yet.I will certainly put it on the list to try.
Author:  Gandlaf the Grey [ Sun May 03, 2015 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
I'm with Dorth, I think if you add a little dark colour to the first layer of realistic water it will stop the ripples standing out so much. Also darker paint in the middle of the sheet will help set the difference between shallow and deep water.

This may help

http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/8 ... -and-ponds
Author:  Mapper [ Sun May 03, 2015 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Thanks for the encouragement and ideas everyone - more to think about.

OMW - yes, I am too impatient on letting things dry - the log in the water on my latest attempt covers up where I stuck my finger to see if that had dried. :)
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Sun May 03, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Gandlaf the Grey wrote:
I'm with Dorth, I think if you add a little dark colour to the first layer of realistic water it will stop the ripples standing out so much. Also darker paint in the middle of the sheet will help set the difference between shallow and deep water.


Yes this would work with a normal pool but in this case the base of the pool is a picture of a mountain so to darken the pool and shade the centre to add the depth will ruin the illusion of the mountain being reflected on the waters surface.
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Mon May 04, 2015 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Image


Image

I used still water over a oak acorn brown. The still water reacted with the ink and was cloudy for months. I later repainted it with a green base color to better match the Dwarven Forge Cavernous lake set. The pet dish in the bottom photo was painted with Dwarven Forge brand of paint. I used Realistic Water this time. The Blue colored water is covered with Modge Podge. I Painted the rapids with True Blue and DF bubbles.

I like the Modge Podge products. I know my sisters children embedded photos on T shirts with it.

Image

The darker pond was painted over black with a forest green. This is the repaint of the brown. The other pet dish was painted with Dwarven Forge brand colors. The lighter greens were stippled on befor Realistic Water was added. The realistic water is less glossy than Modge Podge

I think I would like to try to embed something like the bottom of a magic mirror or some kind of portal.

Image
Author:  Gandlaf the Grey [ Mon May 04, 2015 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
My idea would be to totally re think how you are doing this. With my earlier suggestion I forgot about the mountain reflection so that can be scrubbed.
However only to a degree, make a pond as I've suggested then paint a mountain in the top of the realistic water. Make the paint thin to create the image, you do t want thick paint.them apply a very thin layer of water on top.
My thinking is a reflection should be on the top of the water, not on the bottom of the pond.
Author:  Oldman Willow [ Mon May 04, 2015 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
A friend of mine created a very nice ice flow by painting the ice blocks between different layers of resin.

Image

Image

A dark bottom would act like a mirror.

I think adding the photo to the top layer might reflect the bottom of the photo.
I don't think I can add much until I try it myself.
Author:  Dorthonion [ Mon May 04, 2015 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
I understand the reflection concept. I was thinking of coloured camera filters or similar translucent materials that would add to the watery depth, hold the photo flat, darken it (using a greyscale or tobacco filter) and you could add a thinner water effects on top.
That way you get the reflection illusion, the darker water and the photo stays flat, no matter what happens to the water effects medium.
Author:  Mapper [ Mon May 04, 2015 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Congrats everyone, you now have my mind spinning. :)

The initial problem was trying to get the reflection to look like it is on top of the water vs the bottom of the lake.

Using a painting of a lake reflection is helping somewhat vs just a picture of a mountain as that just looked like a picture with water effects on top. Using the vellum to print it on gives a look of transparency vs printing on photo paper. I'm thinking if I have something overhanging the water with a shadow that might also help with the illusion.

I will play more with the picture itself next time before trying the whole concept again.
Author:  Dorthonion [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Best of luck Mapper - I admire someone who is undeterred by any setbacks. You'll find a solution in the end.
BTW that was not a pun, this being about watery reflections and all. Some scoundrels may suggest it (we know who you are) but it was not a pun!
I just realised your Avatar name comes from the Roman surveyor image... I must be slowing down :(
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Tue May 05, 2015 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Durin's Stone - Second try
Very cool idea, I can see what you're looking for and.. ehm.. well, I haven't got a clue how to achieve it. So.. good luck. Keep us updated. 8)
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