It's a difficult choice, on the one hand you have ghostly riders and on the other spectres (yes spectrees are way too expensive, put you could pput the Tainted and Gothmog in it if you got 3 companies) and on the other ghostly riders, which can destroy enemies before they get hit, but are even more fragile, you could try to combo these both, but it would be risky, but since you have 2v Epics with 4 might points each, you don't need as many ordinary captains in your formations so you could squeeze in both.

About you ringwraith ally, you will of course know full well that Khamul is the post powerful and th Undying is one of the weakest, however you could still make him work, the problem is, noone would ever cast spells on his formation if the one next to him doesn't have him in it, and they may ensure thyey never have a spellcaster near him, in fact, he's the only wraith who is at his weakest if the enemy goes withought magic full stop.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Yeah, I've thought about that with The Undying. I will probably use Khamul in the end. What I would really like is to have both of them, one with the orcs and the other with the Carn Dum. The Undying is a more appetizing choice only because of the Super Friends list I'm playing against right now, I suppose. Free Will of Iron is a serious boon to a unit that potentially faces 2 Visions of Woe and like 4 Nature's Wraths every turn. But he is considerably more conditional.

I'll see about fitting in both Spectres and Riders. One thing I'm thinking is that I don't really need Druzhag around that much. He's 3 extra might, plus his spells, but I don't really care much about his spells and I can get the might elsewhere/already have plenty of might as it is. If I cut him, go back to 6 co. Gundabad Blackshields, I get 170pts to spend. And Durburz' Iron Fist ability gains some potential for use.

If I can somehow find another 70pts I could take 3 co. Spectres to hide behind the blackshields, sneaking out for magic and AtDing back behind again. Cut the Chieftan from the barbarians, and the blackshields to 5 co.? That seems too small for them.-- they are supposed to block LoS for shooting and magic. Hm.

Hi Xelee, I think it depends what type of Huscarls (which I think fall into the good value category like WoMT rather than the abusive types above), yes with shield they are just slightly better value Carn Dum but add nothing to your army. Far worse could be said for the Blackshields in the above list!

However Huscarls with bow or 2HW add a bit of flavour to what would otherwise be a one dimensional Carn Dum list. One of our group decided to build a Barbarian army using WF new Vikings, good deal on lots of boxes (7 or 9?) when the pound was up on the dollar. He needs some bow, orc bow are like gold dust to get so thinks Dunland Huscarls with bow as allies, using the same WF figures. So his 1000pt army, a wraith, the troll and Carn Dum warriors, Allies, 6 companies of Huscarl bow 150pts, 4 companies of Wargs 100pts. At 1500 a 4 company unit of 2HW Huscarls join in for a bit of variety. Nice balanced and fluffy army. I think 25pt Huscarl bow instead of 20pt Orc bow for good valid reasons, is not a problem in any sense.

On the decree of rarity, I don't think this is an issue, the most abused troops I see are Morannon followed by Blackshields and Morgul Knights, two of which are or can be made common. Only ever seen a maximum of 3 companies of Arbalests used as an allied unit. If Rohan armies take some Gondor foot 9 times out of 10 its common WoMT.

I do like the idea that they must come from the same army though, allows some variation in armies without cherry picking. The only issue I have is that it hurts good armies more in that they have to use the forgotten realms list to get Wizards, if they can do this without it counting then it would be fairer.

As a side note the most abusive list I have played is Mordor. 3 companies of Morannon and wraith x however many you want, 3 companies of Morannon and Gothmog, Siege bows and Morgul Knights. No rare allies, give me that Carn Dum list any day one the week.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that any of those units are really so much better than Carn Dum. Carn Dum are not Allies. They do not use up Precious Ally PointS (PAPS). That in and of itself is pretty serious to me. Being forced to spend more on Allies under the current system, without other changes to make my own units a little more competitive, is not something I'm at all interested in. Arbalesters as Allies is, of course, nuts-awesomer, but Arbalesters are also too cheap in their own faction. Blackshields are too, really. The Huscarls, when I look at them, don't seem too powerful by half next to these other units. I would in fact prefer the Berserk rule over their +1 Strength on the charge, because as needed I can might my way to S7 (or just roll it!), and I always get it, not just on the charge. The main thing that makes Carn Dum better, however, is the PAPS.

Anyhow, new list I used in a game the other day:

Fate: Watcher in the Shadows
Epic Hero: Nazgul (Witch-King)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Tainted)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies)
Common: Spectral Host (3 companies)
Rare: Shade
Legendary: Buhrdur
Legendary: Gulavhar
Ally: Nazgul (Khamul the Easterling)
Ally: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
Ally: Durburz, Goblin King of Moria
Ally: Grima Wormtongue
Ally: Gundabad Blackshields (6 companies)

Deployment was Maelstrom, as it has been now for too many games. Every time I want to see how my list works as a cohesive force I seem to get that deployment. It was High Ground, and I played far too aggressively (against Super Friends again). I still would have won had he not realized he could Call Winds and move my formations out of the way so he could advance on the objective. Grima quit on the very first AtD of the game, so that was cool. Mostly Maelstrom [word deleted] me hard, though. I hate maelstrom. It is so bad for me.

I'm thinking of adjusting the list to the following after that fight:

Fate: Watcher in the Shadows
Epic Hero: Nazgul (Witch-King)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Tainted)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies, Captain)
Common: Spectral Host (4 companies)
Rare: Shade
Legendary: Gulavhar
Ally: Nazgul (Khamul the Easterling)
Ally: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
Ally: Durburz, Goblin King of Moria
Ally: Grima Wormtongue
Ally: Gundabad Blackshields (6 companies)

Generally speaking I liked the list, but the Spectres were still a little too soft and got beat up badly by magic and shooting. And I had to kill a whole lot of Might on Will of Iron's just to keep my Carn Dum alive. So a little more Might in the Captain, a little more staying power for the Spectres. Buhrdur did absolutely nothing useful. I still like him though....

Did you put Buhrdur in ambush, and did you use ATD?

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Hi catdubh, I don't really think it is about things being 'abusive' - I wouldn't go that far (ok, maybe with allied Arbalesters lol) but at some stage I begin to feel that the army lists become very 'samey'. Those troops in the list aren't abusive (well except...) but are pretty much no-brainers even compared to base troops for the list they are being bolted on to. Huscarls are cheaper Carn Dum, Blackshields are Orcs with shields with bonus rules, and so on. So rather than the 'pick and mix' allies that are going to end up samey, I think there is merit in restricting them a little to just keep some more difference in what gets fielded. Forgotten Kingdoms are allies only, the proposal doesn't apply to them.

orkdom, Berserkers only get to go berserk on the charge and while you might always roll that 6, you have an equal charge of rolling that 1. So Huscarls are more reliable, in addition to being cheaper.

I'm just 'thinking out loud' though re: allies and Angmar, since it is one of the lists I run. I somewhat agree that you need a few allies in the Angmar list and I generally take re-modeled Siege bows in mine to get artillery. I can just also see that some of the problems with the evil list (some things are too cheap, too many cheap spellcasters) tend to encourage any evil list to be taking the same allies so Glabro's suggestion seemed to me to be a happy medium. A way to ally in some things to cover gaps without picking the United Nations of Evil as the theme for every army.

That's not a comment on what you should take in your own list though, I think you should take what you want. I just tried making armies like that (Isengard with Druzhag and Nazgul!) to see what they'd look like and am now in the hangover after the bender

Orkdom, in relation to your list, it seems to have a very high ratio of heroes to troops. I think that may well be holding you back a bit. WOTR can often be about units working together and you often need to have multiple units at any one point to get everything working properly. For example, Buhrdur generally needs at least one infantry buddy, line infantry units need to be working in concert to expose flanks and some other units like Cav work best with either line inf to pin targets or if the army as a whole has enough troops that they can be properly held in reserve to find a flank later on.

_________________
http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Hum. I think, generally, I agree with you, Xelee. You could even be on to something here. I would like to have more troops to put on the field. But how might I do that? I want to make extensive use of the spirits; I am not really interested, aesthetically, in making either Men or Orcs the mainstay of my army; I am reasonably willing to split things somewhere down the middle though. I'm definitely open to any ideas as to how I might realistically move in that direction. With regards to making units work together, I'm pretty well aware that if I don't coordinate my forces properly I'm in a very bad spot; that's why I hate Maelstrom-- I am unable to determine the layout of my forces as they arrive on the board in any fashion at all, except by delaying and hard reshuffling of my formations as I wait for the right units to enter play and get them into position so I can attack in a way that isn't disjointed, chaotic, and unhelpfully messy. I have a particular way in which I need to deploy my units in order for certain smaller formations and monsters not to get exposed too early to enemy magic and shooting, and so I can more effectively control the pace and direction of play, and Maelstrom tosses all that to the wind rather immediately.

Sometimes I get lucky with Maelstrom, as when, the first time I played it, my Carn Dum arrived with the Witch-King and Thrydan on the first turn of the game and got a rear charge off on the Super Friends formation (Heroic Charge beat out Epic Tranquility in that phase). That was pretty devastating. But that's sheer luck, and not at all to be relied upon.

Here's the Batrep with pics of my latest game, in which we got Maelstrom for the deployment. Super Friends again. Pics are from my phone because I forgot my camera that day; this is the reason for both their shoddy appearance and their being so quickly uploaded to this site for your viewing (I am much lazier about editing phone-pics).

2000pt Game, we rolled Maelstrom deployment and High Ground for objective.

Objective (The Ring, with Watcher nearby. I also had Buhrdur hiding in the dead tree there):
http://www.box.net/shared/pvef7bsg57ghx9scn5he

My List (as I said above):
Fate: Watcher in the Shadows
Epic Hero: Nazgul (Witch-King)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Tainted)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies)
Common: Spectral Host (3 companies)
Rare: Shade
Legendary: Buhrdur
Legendary: Gulavhar
Ally: Nazgul (Khamul the Easterling)
Ally: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
Ally: Durburz, Goblin King of Moria
Ally: Grima Wormtongue
Ally: Gundabad Blackshields (6 companies)

His List (in case you need reminding):
Epic Hero: Arwen
Epic Hero: Celeborn
Epic Hero: Cirdan
Epic Hero: Elrond
Epic Hero: Galadriel
Epic Hero: Haldir
Epic Hero: Legolas
Epic Hero: Thranduil
Common: High Elf Archers (6 companies)
Ally: Gandalf the White
Ally: Radagast the Brown

I won the Priority/Deployment roll, so of course I let him go first, and he came on one of the short board edges, to my left, and huddled in a corner to save himself from the rear-charge I gave him last time. Naturally, in his first AtD roll of the game, he gets doubles, so Grima is already out of the picture! We didn't know at the time that you actually can't AtD the turn you come on from reserves. Go figure.

Elves hiding in a corner after scaring Grima off:
http://www.box.net/shared/e4nz8fojrac9178pkx67

On my first turn, I got the Carn Dum men, with the WK and Durburz, and the Shade on "his" side of the table, who tried to hide behind a little hill far away from the elves (for the moment), the Spectres came on the other side with Dwimmer and Taint, and moved up behind the dead tree. Gulavhar, meanwhile, came on and hid behind some trees in the corner just across from the elves....

Scared-Dum Men and the Spectres:
http://www.box.net/shared/x0t5lmhcmoi9u0druqpc

Gulavhar is also afraid of Elf Tricks:
http://www.box.net/shared/6e1uk8dk7t1iupcdleyb

Oh: that's a new Gulavhar I'm slowly working on. Lots of dead guys around. Arvedui will be there too, holding out his sword and about to get eaten. Pics of that later perhaps when I make some more progress.

I didn't really win any Priority rolls from this point on. I won one on the last turn, I think. But just to get that part out of the way.

Turn 2 was pretty similar to turn 1: Buhrdur showed up and hid just outside the objective, pretty much where he stayed all game as the guy I was going to use to grab the objective. Ghost Riders showed up and hid back with the Shade. Everything still backing up to stay cautiously just out of Tricksy Elf range. I figured he had to come my way anyhow, and also I could fly forward with Spirit Walk and Wings of Terror a lot faster than I was backing up, and thereby swoop back into position at the right moment.

Spirits too busy [word deleted] themselves to think about fighting just yet:
http://www.box.net/shared/pf4a1eho07oxn82fjvjp

Turn 3 things actually started to happen a little. I finally got Gothmog and the Blackshields (with Khamul) on the board in a pretty good spot, and moved them up as far as I could and hid Gulavhar and the Spectres behind them. Shooting and Magic dealt a wound to the Shade and killed 2 Goblins, that's about it. He continued to slowly advance up towards the objective but kept himself against the board edge, cautious about arriving reinforcements.

Lining up for the Meat Grinder:
http://www.box.net/shared/dms0cpiqlaps2qny7sha

Turn 4 was where the game was decided, for the most part. He went first, beat the Devlan Mud out of the Carn Dum with Magic and then repositioned to receive my charges. We just took out the little hill because at this point it was only being moderately annoying--
Blasting up the Barbarians, or The Reason I Think The Undying Might Help:
http://www.box.net/shared/oscdrrtycnn7z0ys0qqq

I come in and position stuff for the charge:
http://www.box.net/shared/6hmfk4u5xec0ncqtkoyp

Buhrdur wishes he could join in the fun:
http://www.box.net/shared/231p220d3c0l30gbzjl7

His shooting did very little. Because he didn't shoot anything. So I got all my stuff in ready to charge, he Will of Iron-ed every spell I tried to throw at him, it looked very pretty, like he was pretty fried, and then of course Epic Tranquility succeeded. :/

This would have been alright, except I then promptly lost the next Priority roll (see above). After his next Magic-- uhh, I mean Movement-- phase, this is what was left:
http://www.box.net/shared/gp4b9n4uh145o0vdiet2

Note the absence of Gulavhar, the Shade, Ghost Riders, Spectres. Light of the Valar is crazy powerful against my army. Especially when you have over 20 Might on a guy with Overlord so you miraculously get sixes for everything.

Even so, at this point, we both still thought there was no way he could win, because he could get past my blackshields to get to the objective.

In my parts of Turn 5 I just made sure everything was as close to him as possible. He transfixed the blackshields anyhow, because there was balls nothing I could do to prevent any of his spells going off without wasting precious Might. Epic Tranquility worked its wonders yet again against the Barabarians, and I was just about out of Might.

Turn 6: I think this is actually where I got Priority. WK and Durburz joined the Blackshields, abandoning the Carn Dum to their fate. Just kept my self as close to him as possible, and hoped I could survive a couple turns' punishment to win the objective.

He then remembered all the guys with Call Winds he's got:
http://www.box.net/shared/xqa7fdx525skqq330ckv

Not looking good.

Basically that was the game. He pushed me far enough away that he didn't have to worry about Khamul messing up his day, and tore me apart from there without much difficulty. Infantry take objectives better than monsters, so Buhrdur was out of a job and may as well have just crawled back into the tree, except he got killed first. Not a very good game for me.

This game would have gone a great deal better had I played more conservatively. Especially when setting up the charge against him on Turn 4. Had I held a couple formations back, such as keeping the spectres hidden behind the blackshields, I not only would not have been so butt hurt in his subsequent "Movement" phase, but I would have stopped the Call Winds gimmick in its tracks.

But: I knew that before we even began playing. Objective games against his list are pretty simple. He's got one formation, so all you have to do is stall, back off, feed speed bumps and bog him down a bit, and you've won 9 games out of 10. In an actual tournament match I will play considerably more contained against him and not just throw it all at him like that; right now, I just want to see if I can beat him in a non-objective based game, so that's what I tried for, and it failed rather badly. I need to play more conservatively against him in any case, I think.

Hopefully that gives you sort of an idea of how I like to deploy my units, though. Maelstrom mucks it up, but you can at least see the Blackshields operating as a screen for the more vulnerable stuff, and the Carn Dum are even acting as a sort of flanking unit, by happenstance, which is what I like to do with them. Typically Buhrdur joins the Men on one flank with possible support from Gulavhar, and the Blackshields cover the spirits until they can rip into some units with lowered courage (by right of Dismay and Grima and the Watcher). Gulavhar is bery helpful with the Spirits too (free heroic fight is useful everywhere, it seems!), and the Shade makes Duels a stroll through the park with good footwork and positioning beforehand.

about the call winds, you may only use one time the same spell at a formation each turn

_________________
Ours is the fury!

Eh? Exactly where does it say that, if you could point it out? 'Cause I don't see it anywhere in the Magic section of the rulebook or anywhere at all in the FAQ.

oh, how many people explain me a rule wrong, now my tactics still can work

_________________
Ours is the fury!

orkdom isn't necesarilry right (although I think he is on this matter) as thought you rolled on bezerk table even if you don't charge.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Berserk works only if the formation have succesful charged this turn...

Yeah I was wrong about the Berserk rule, only works on the turn you charge. I'm pretty sure I'm right about multi-casting spells on single targets though.

I threw together the following list after numerous failed attempts at making the Spirit Legions battlehost work for me at the 2000pt level. Let me know what you think:

Fate: Watcher in the Shadows
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Tainted)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Ghostly Legion (2 companies, Captain)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies, Captain, Hornblower)
Common: Spectral Host (4 companies)
Legendary: Buhrdur
Legendary: Gulavhar
Ally: Nazgul (Khamul the Easterling)
Ally: Nazgul (The Betrayer)
Ally: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
Ally: Grima Wormtongue
Ally: Sharkey's Ruffians (6 companies)

I think that's it. Trying to give myself more options, some range, more formations as opposed to heroes. Still very good spellcasting and lots of Courage modification, heroes will be in every formation so that's good. I wish I could fit the Witch King, though, because I really like using the model I made for him (minor conversion but what the hey, I like it), and I really don't like Gulavahr failing his AtD and Terror checks. This list just feels better without him though. The Betrayer turns the Ruffians into something nasty and provides most of the same stuff as the WK for less. I feel like this list still stands a good chance against the Super Friends without being to specifically geared in that direction, and has a broader range of formations running around to accomplish different things...or something. Comments?

EDIT: Also, not sure what to use for the ruffians. They'd be more barbarians, so I could just get more historical models and convert them up with bows, but are there any good options out there anyone could suggest?

I like your list, change the Carn Dum Chftn and Banner for more companies. As an aside, this is more similar to the Angmar list I willl use next time too.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

About ruffians, I planned to convert using LOTR model, eg Corsairs, Rangers, Haradrim, Wood elves.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

More companies over the hero? Hum, I could do that, but I've never had a real problem with just the 4 and I like having the Might around/being able to AtD (more the latter). They won't likely have any Epics with them. Gothmog will be a "counts as" Ghoul King (that Ar-Carangor guy I made up), leading the spectres, and the nazgul will likely be split between the ruffians and the spectres.... although I guess I don't need to do it that way, do I?

It's more models to buy and paint, but I will have the extras for it from what I'll have to buy for the ruffians anyhow. Might as well give it a shot.

For the Ruffian models: I guess I want them to look akin to the Carn Dum guys I have, somewhat. Just those guys didn't come with 48 bow options. Pfft. Wood Elves and Rangers are an interesting option, but probably a bit expensive.

So Forging of Fates was sort of a wash. They changed the prizes for the event about 2 days beforehand, going from what had been for months a first place prize of a free 2000pt WotR army, to a measly $60 gift voucher for GW's online store.

A lot of people didn't show up. We had 5 show, one who didn't really want to play. The judge was visibly annoyed that he had to run the event.

But four of us played anyway.

So I won my first game, and won via forfeit the second game, which gave me so many Victory Points I would not have needed to play the third round in order to win the tournament. The game I did play was fun anyhow, so I have some pictures from that, army lists, blah blah blah.

FoF Round One
Angmar v. Mordor, 2000pts
Scenario: High Ground Objective with Shield Wall Deployment; Special Rule "Your Staff is Broken! granting free Will of Iron rolls to any model that still had a point of Might left, and extra Victory Points for a) killing your opponent's most expensive formation, and b) keeping your most expensive formation alive.

I liked the special rule for the scenario. It really makes Magic much more reasonable overall. Unfortunately it doesn't operate so well with some guys like The Undying, who would have been in my list if not for that rule. Other than this rule there isn't too much special about the mission, which is okay. When it comes to tournament games I'm not such a big fan of things that can't be planned for, or that reduce a game to little more than strokes of luck. Anywho:

My List:
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Tainted)
Common: Ghostly Legion (2 companies, Captain)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Ghostly Riders (3 companies, Captain)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies)
Common: Carn Dum Warriors (4 companies)
Common: Angmar Orcs (6 companies, Bows)
Legendary: Buhrdur
Legendary: Gulavhar
Ally: Nazgul (Khamul the Easterling)
Ally: Nazgul (The Betrayer)
Ally: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul
Ally: Grima Wormtongue

My Opponent's List (Mordor):
Epic Hero: Nazgul (Dwimmerlaik)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Shadow Lord)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Betrayer)
Epic Hero: Nazgul (The Knight of Umbar)
Rare: Troll Chieftan
Rare: Morgul Knights (3 companies, Captain, Banner)
Legendary: Sauron
Ally: Easterling Cohort (3 companies, Banner)
Battlehost: Gorgoroth Orc Horde (18 companies, Taskmaster, Captain, Drummer, Banner)

I guess I should mention that this list is actually illegal. I didn't even think about it at the time and just noticed now as I wrote it up.... Oh well. Not a big deal, and if we just assumed the Shadow Lord was the Dark Marshall he'd be almost fine. Shadow Lord didn't affect me much in any case because I never actually got close enough to shoot until my Orcs were obliterated.

The Board: http://www.box.net/shared/6rf3zxp83t90kf3atcey

I won the roll for deployment and, not really knowing what to expect from a Gorgoroth Horde army and his particular assortment of Little Plastic Mens, let him deploy first. His set up was simple enough: big mob in the middle, Knights, Sauron and Cohort on either flank. I got lucky; a refused flank or something of the sort would have been a little trickier. High Ground forced him to play the middle, I guess.

I spread my heroes a bit to make sure all my formations could maneuver and advance swiftly. Carn Dum and the Ghostly Riders made symmetrical flanks while my orcs shielded Gulavhar and the footslogger Ghosts in the middle.

Deployment: http://www.box.net/shared/z7vxy2fcs5f6d4882qii

He chose to go first, and just edged forward cautiously with most of his stuff, wary of the speed of my flank formations and only trying to ensure he could shoot my orcs to pieces with his orcs (more orcs). His Magic was, um, lackluster. See pic for dirrty details.

Turn 1 Movement: http://www.box.net/shared/pm83vt197qqgx5n29f2d

My Movement/Magic did everything I wanted it to. Wings of Terror on every formation with a Nazgul in it, and I even managed to get off a Visions of Woe on his Eastern Cohort.

His Shooting was fantastic, which isn't so surprising when you've got the Betrayer to re-roll your, what, 50 or so to-hit dice? Fortunately Khamul was up to the task and I made HALF my Leech Essence saves, so only took 17 casualties to my Orcs and got driven back 4 inches (no shooting for me!).

Turn 2:
He won Priority (see "Fun Factsezez" in the above image for Deployment) and went first again. Just shuffled some stuff around in movement, backing up as my moves to grab the flanks became more apparent to him, and also seemingly wary of leaving Sauron out there in too vulnerable a position. His Magic flopped horribly once again, except he managed to Transfix my Orcs. Sauron seemed to be suffering from a very bad case of Attention Deficit D- HEYLETSGORIDEBIKESYOUGUYS.

Ahem.

For my part, I am awesome at Focusing and at AtD tests. I could have passed all those AtD tests just with the natural dice rolls, I think. Everything got just about where it needed to be. Orcs moved up again for some further punishment, keeping his big mob's attention. Ghost cavalry sneaking around the flanks and everyone in position for their charges blah blah blah. Troll got Pall-of-Nighted. Everything else got Will-of-Ironed though, so his Horde could act unimpeded.

His shooting killed 12 more Orcs, no shooting for me again since my orcs were transfixed. In the Fight phase I wiped his Knights with my Taint-and-friends (or is it the other way around? :confused: ), but my Ghost Riders on the Right stalled so I wasn't able to get rid of the Eastern Cohort, although I got them disordered with Courage 2. Pics of each fight:

Left Flank: http://www.box.net/shared/e9mpr5qdoa9h16tdt1gs
Right Flank: http://www.box.net/shared/oa4llubye52vx0onchqo

The whole battlefield at the end of the turn: http://www.box.net/shared/muugzvudcb0qal1gudeb

Turn 3:
Guess who won Priority again! He went first once more, back-pedaling with his Horde to try and prevent me getting rear charges with my Ghostly Riders. As you'll see, that only sort of worked, but he tried. Sauron moved to guard the Horde's right flank (what I keep calling the left flank) from impending charges, there being no other options left on that side to use as speed bumps (most expensive speed bump unit in any game for any system ever?). Eastern Cohort were still Disordered and just sat where they were. The Troll moved quickly to threaten the rear of my Carn Dum on the right flank. His Magic helped him a little, giving him more movement for the horde and Palling the Tainted Carn Dum so I had little to threaten him with on that side.

I got my right flank ghostly riders in for a rear charge of the horde, skirting along the edge of the board. Gulavhar went to dispatch the Troll, Buhrdur was completely forgotten about, and my Ghostly Legion and Orcs flew up right into the Horde's face knowing at least one of them would get to charge. For Magic, I got a super Sunder Spirit on his horde by Mighting a 5 up to a 6 from Khamul, leaving the Horde at a grand Courage 1, but everything else got negated by Will rolls.

Turn 3 Movement: http://www.box.net/shared/12dbbf7aeabusbfkxkyv

I hoped he would take the bait of the Orcs in his face, and he did: his shooting phase finished off my orcs completely (damn impostor betrayer). But I killed 14 of his orcs in return, using all 5 remaining might from Gothmog, Khamul, and the Betrayer to get the most out of Khamul's Leech Essence saves, now I was close enough to redirect them. Obviously my dead orcs did not return fire.

The Turncoat Strikes Again: http://www.box.net/shared/ex78xbaagz3hsg0iytti

Fights this turn were tricky mainly because I stupidly forgot about Heroic Charge and therefore didn't call any. Sauron charged the Riders on the left, but luckily the Troll decided to charge Gulavhar and failed his Terror test, so I charged him with both Gulavhar and Dwimmer's Men instead. In the centre an epic battle between the Orc Horde and the Spirit Hosts ensued, resulting in some pretty spectacular body counts for the Orcs, but also leaving the Spirits pretty seriously depleted of their already considerably thinner numbers.

Sauron, Dark Lord of Speed Bump: http://www.box.net/shared/a55zxi1oobc5ad4ahy8x
Big Mob Beatdown- The Before Pic: http://www.box.net/shared/akyy5rnqngrppk631otg
Big Mob Beatdown- The After Pic: http://www.box.net/shared/6rxzpca5h0zr7jkxrc3q

The combat left the Orc Horde Disordered, which had me feeling pretty safe about my position. Gulavhar and friends beat up the Troll pretty badly, Gulavhar going into an Epic Rage on top of his already normal mind-state of "Homicidal Rage," and yet for some damn reason the Troll's head just wouldn't come off! He was left with an obnoxious 6 wound counters but still walking.

Walking Dead: http://www.box.net/shared/b194ors2ssk76q3l6vd6

Sauron killed 3 of the Ghostly Riders and left them disordered.

Turn 4:
Things started to wind down. His Horde regrouped, his Cohort was still disordered and just sat there playing with themselves. He about-faced with his Horde and tried very hard to Magic my last Ghostly Riders company to death, but I made 8 out of 9 Will of Iron saves, and only on his very last spell was I successfully transfixed. Sauron and the Troll just readied themselves for more killing, Sauron again proving himself to be probably the worst spell caster Middle Earth has ever heard of.

Time had been called so we were just going to finish this turn. Buhrdur finally showed up looking to pick a fight with Sauron. I moved both Carn Dum formations within 3" of the objective in case one of them was shot to death, set up Gulavhar to handle the zombie troll, and hid my remaining left-flank-ghostly-riders behind the big rock and away from the clutches of Sauron (since that formation was the one I declared as my "most expensive" formation, and I didn't want him getting the 10-bonus-point swing for finishing them off). Magic failed to stop the coming storm of arrows from the Horde.

His shooting easily dispatched Buhrdur. In the Charge phase, Gulavhar failed his Terror check and couldn't charge the Zombie Troll Chieftan for some free nomz/battle points. I have a history of hating Gulavhar for his depressing Courage of 4. Since that was the only charge to be had, we called it there.

Victor: Angmar
Final Score: 16-8

In the second round I came up against the Super Friends list! I haven't posted it yet because I'm super lazy, but we had only recently playtested the third round scenario, and things had gone quite badly for him. I had a good consistent way of beating him in an objective based mission. He took one look at me and just shook his head, and conceded rather than play it out, giving me full battle points. I believe you've seen his list by now so I won't re-post it.

Scenario: Battle for the Pass Deployment with Seize the Prize Objectives.

Special Bonus Battle Points for: killing an enemy Epic Hero (+3); killing an enemy Spellcaster (+3). Bonuses stack!

So here's how this works out: He forfeited, so I automatically got max points (it didn't really matter with only 4 people, but what the hey....). That's 5 for each of 4 objective markers (+20), and 3 for each of 10 Epic Heroes (+30), plus 3 for each of 8 Spellcasters (+24). Finally, +1 for killing his lone Formation.

So I got 20+30+24+1=75 points for that "game" that didn't get played. I honestly don't blame him for his concession; given the number of games we've played, and the recent success I've had against him, and the way the scenario worked out with his list, I probably would have ended up getting a good 60 or so of those points anyhow had we actually played, and it certainly wouldn't have been much fun for him.

That was it. The other guy brought Moria, which I wish I could have played against, because the list looked like it would have given me some trouble. There were quite a lot of very large formations in the army, the sort that could really soak up a lot of damage from my more "elite" companies, and then swing back hard. Strangely, he brought a Dragon model but didn't use it, opting for a Balrog instead. The Balrog was nicely painted while the Dragon was still bare metal, of course.

One thing I would have liked to change about my list is the Angmar Orcs. If I'd had the models, I would have used 6 companies of Sharkey's Ruffians instead, which would have given me 60pts extra for a third company in the Ghostly Legion formation to make them more durable in a fight. Also, I probably would have used The Undying instead of The Betrayer had it not been for the special rule in the first scenario.

Well build army

I am surprised your oponent didn't use Khamul. Sounds like a fun game. Glad you did well. Also not many people say that they wish they'd chosen the Undying over the Betrayer.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I was surprised he didn't take Khamul as well. That would have been very brutal.

As for the Undying/Betrayer thing, the Betrayer is undoubtedly a better option in general/absolute terms, but for my army he feels unnecessary. The Orcs are still really more of a distraction formation meant to try and survive, and excepting that first scenario, the Undying would do more with his ability to keep the orcs around by keeping dangerous spells off them. Also, The Undying adds some extra potential offense with his increased Mastery. I think he's just a better fit for the particular way I work my list. Also people don't complain about him.

Overall I feel the Undying's spell benefits outweigh the added damage from re-rolling with my bow shots, which are very low strength and not as consistent in terms of the number of dice they put out (casualties taken, LoS/arc/range, etc.). The Undying is automatically better at defense, and can put out just as much bonus damage in various magical forms. Again, the first scenario negated his primary worth.