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WoTR Gondor army. Please c&c!
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Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:04 am ]
Post subject:  WoTR Gondor army. Please c&c!
Epic Heroes

Aragorn, Isildur's Heir - 200pts
Goes in MT Knights Formation

Prince Imrahil - 125pts
Goes with Knights of Dol Amroth Formation


Common Formations

Minas Tirith Garrison - 185pts
4 Companies; Shields, Captain & Banner

Minas Tirith Garrison - 185pts
4 Companies; Shields, Captain & Banner

Minas Tirith Outriders - 150pts
5 Companies; Shields

Gondorian Rangers - 90pts
3 Companies

Foot Knights of Dol Amroth - 220pts
3 Companies; Captain & Banner

Knights of Dol Amroth - 235pts
4 Companies; Banner


Legendary Formations

Grey Company - 155pts
2 Companies

Rangers of Ithilien - 155pts
2 Companies


Allies

Gandalf the Grey


8 Formations; 27 Companies. 22+1 Might, 1900 points total.

Ok, so I still have 100 points leftover and am unsure of where to put Gandalf. I was leaning towards one of the WoMT Formations so he'd have some decent padding, but I'm not sure I want him in one of my big infantry blocks.
Author:  Xelee [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:55 am ]
Post subject: 
Lord Hurin,

IMO that force is very small. I had a look at my 1000 pt Cav list with Aragron and Farmair (which is a think a reasonable comparison to what you are doing here) and that comes to 23 bases with one more captain purchased. 11 bases of that are Cav.

Compared to that, being for twice the points, your force seems relatively small. I think a good start would be less upgrades, especially banners for foot, and those legendary formations need to be larger. You could have the points to do that just by reconsidering the upgrades. Also, I would rather have Faramir than two captains.

However, definitely give banners to the cav, eg the 'Outriders'.

I also question that Foot Knight unit. I think there are much better choices for the points.
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree that you need to reduce the upgrades, however, I would say drop the captains. Epic Heroes can fulfil their roles better and banner bearer's give you the ability to re-roll charges if need be and double your chances of remaining steadfast and are cheaper.

I don't think you need to remove all of the upgrades, but each captain can get you two companies of knights or warriors. The Grey Company could do with another company, but could be okay as is and the rangers of Ithilien would need at least two more companies.

Removing all three captains gives you an extra 150 points, add the spare 100 points, so you would have 250 spare. Not got the bok to hand, but I'm going to aim high with the costs, so the three extra companies of Legendaries are say 120 point (likely less than that ;) ), meaning you'd still have 130 points spare, which is plenty of points to bulk out the army a bit more.

As for placing Gandalf, stick him in one of the units of rangers: make him a part of the ranged arsenal ;)

Just a few ideas, rather than strict rulings.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I have yet to play a game, which I should have stated. This game seems to be all about models, models, models. I have 4 boxes' worth of WoMT and it still isn't enough?

Anyway, here's what my thoughts were on all the things you guys brought up:

Foot Knights: They're a Fv4, Strength 4 unit with heavy armour and shields who have Unstoppable Charge. Seems good to me on paper at least. Plus I have the models. As for the Banner in here, it makes their charge better, so they're more likely to reach their target with an Unstoppable Charge. What would you get instead? More WoMT?

Grey Company: They are indomitable, so they stay until the last man. I could grab a third Company for them, however. They seem way too good for their points.

Rangers of Ithilien: These guys are Ambushers, and I've read that it's inadvisable to have Formations of them grow too big.

The Captains and Banners are basically to fill out my Companies. All I've read about this game in WD battle reports is Might, Might, Might so I figured it was important.

So bottom line: WoMT Formations should be 6 Companies? Foot Knights are useless? More and more models?
Author:  Hashut's Blessing [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Footknights are awesome, but then again, the mounted ones are too. Keep a banner in this unit, whether it's foot or mounted. You will LOVE the 4+ charge rule (remember, it's per company, not per formation ;) ), so it's a must.

Grey Company: Seems you agree with me here :D

Rangers of Ithilien: I couldn't remember if they were ambushers or not. Since they are, keep them as is, unless you have no terrain, in which case, bulk them out, but a different option would likelyh be better in that case, lol.

As for Might: personally, might is always overrated in both SBG and WotR, IMO. You will want Might, but you have Might from your Epic Heroes and I like to use it mostly to call Heroic Duels and wint hem and do maximum damage in them. But, that's just me ;)

I wouldn't necessarily say 6 companies, as I haven't used them before, but it sounds okay to me. Having said that, you could have a 3rd formation of them at 4 strong. But, extra models is a good thing, IMO.
Author:  theskinnyhobbit [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject: 
There are different strategies to take in building an army in wotr. You can go character heavy in an attempt to make very deadly units. However, you need to remember that your opponent can take such units as well, and if your troops die, your characters die as well. At the other end of the spectrum is to take hordes of troops.

Your initial list had a nice variety of options. My comments echo much of what has already been said. I would drop the captains as they always get punked in duels. I would not make the formations of womt larger than 4 companies. I would take one more company of rangers and one more of grey company.

If you don't mind me asking, why are you starting out by playing an enormous 2000 point list? The game is lots of fun at 1000 and even 1500 point levels, and that way you need fewer models. In my opinion, 2000 point games have too many models and heroes for a 6x4 table.
Author:  Xelee [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lord Hurin wrote:
I have yet to play a game, which I should have stated. This game seems to be all about models, models, models. I have 4 boxes' worth of WoMT and it still isn't enough?

Anyway, here's what my thoughts were on all the things you guys brought up:

Foot Knights: They're a Fv4, Strength 4 unit with heavy armour and shields who have Unstoppable Charge. Seems good to me on paper at least. Plus I have the models. As for the Banner in here, it makes their charge better, so they're more likely to reach their target with an Unstoppable Charge. What would you get instead? More WoMT?

Grey Company: They are indomitable, so they stay until the last man. I could grab a third Company for them, however. They seem way too good for their points.

Rangers of Ithilien: These guys are Ambushers, and I've read that it's inadvisable to have Formations of them grow too big.

The Captains and Banners are basically to fill out my Companies. All I've read about this game in WD battle reports is Might, Might, Might so I figured it was important.

So bottom line: WoMT Formations should be 6 Companies? Foot Knights are useless? More and more models?

If you have the foot Knight models, use them. However, at 45pts they do not hit nearly as hard as their points in eg Axemen of Lossarnach. Fight and Str aren't nearly as handy as a pure +1 to hit (lances. 2HW) in this game.

My poor White (Grey) Company tend to just die alot, being surrounded by so many higher def troops. Given movement in this game, it's hard to both use and protect more vulnerable units and they are so good that they are a priority target. At three coys, they usually seem to be able to find a ruin (it's a running joke about my games now) and last out a few turns.

Ithilien in threes would be much better. We do generally have at least one capacity 4 Wood locally.

Upgrades like Captains and Banner Bearers feature a lot in WD and the book examples, but at 85pts combined they almost cost as much as your formations. The cheaper Epic Heroes, like Faramir, are much more useful choices but I do like to keep the odd extra Captain. I would definitely have to at 2000pts.

I don't think WOMT need to be 6 Coys. I run mine as 4-6 and WOMT in particular are very survivable.
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would take larger formations.

Unlike almost everyone else, I would recommend taking Captains. In formations with 4+ companies I'd take a Captain and banner; in formations with four or less companies I'd take one or the other. People are always saying that Captains will be killed in duels, but if you've got Aragorn and Imrahil you should be able to get rid of any enemy heroes that could be a threat.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Ok, I've taken some advice and reworked the army here. I've taken more Formations and hardly any upgrades, so here we go:


Epic Heroes

Aragorn, Isildur's Heir - 200pts
Goes in MT Knights Formation

Prince Imrahil - 125pts
Goes with Knights of Dol Amroth Formation

Faramir - 90pts


Common Formations

Minas Tirith Garrison - 100pts
4 Companies; Shields

Minas Tirith Garrison - 100pts
4 Companies; Shields

Minas Tirith Garrison - 100pts
4 Companies; Shields

Minas Tirith Outriders - 155pts
4 Companies; Shields, Banner

Gondorian Rangers - 90pts
3 Companies

Foot Knights of Dol Amroth - 220pts
3 Companies; Captain & Banner

Knights of Dol Amroth - 235pts
4 Companies; Banner


Legendary Formations

Grey Company - 195pts
3 Companies

Rangers of Ithilien - 185pts
3 Companies


Allies

Gandalf the Grey


9 Formations; 32 Companies. 22+1 Might, 1995 points total.

Ok, so I'm still unsure of where to put Gandalf and Faramir. The survivability of one of the WoMT Formations is nice, but I'm really not sure. I was also thinking of trading Faramir and one of the Legendary Formations for some Rohirrim allies. Possibly 4-5 Companies of Riders with a Banner and Erkenbrand?
Author:  General Elessar [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
It looks much better! 8)

It makes my 2000pts Gondor Army look not very good... :(
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
General Elessar wrote:
It looks much better! 8)

It makes my 2000pts Gondor Army look not very good... :(


It never will be George, lol! jk :lol:
Author:  Xelee [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
That is looking better.

In terms of the Epics, IMO you shouldn't be mentally assigning them all to formations to stay. They can, and should, jump about to let you pull off different formations and make big moves to flank at the right point. Faramir in particualr is brilliant at this, since he can autopass the double test. I often put him in my Cav for that ability alone.

You have the foot in 4's, which should be survivable enough while giving you a little more flexibilty. They may be sometimes able to prevent your Cav flanking, but with enough units they can't prevent everything flanking. You may find that 2x6 makes it easier to keep things doubling though.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
For the Epic Heroes, I'll need to have them deployed with a Formation at the start of the game, right? If things start looking dicey and Aragorn (for example) needs to help hold the Infantry line then I have no problem with that. This is just a guideline for now on where they may start the game.

As for having 6 Company Formations, I really think that 3 4's will be better. I rather like the idea of having more units to come in for flanking charges, etc. Let's face it; if I come up against something that can destroy 4 Co's of WoMT in one turn, 2 extra Companies won't do much but fall in the next turn or be overrun.
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