The One Ring :: View topic - Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex

Gondor's spell casters are in the dedicated allies list, Forgotten Kingdoms. While not a 'must have', I think a spell caster is something that should be looked at to solve certain problems. All of the Istari (well not overcosted Gandalf the White, obviously) are good choices, though I prefer Radagast.

Xelee wrote:

I think we should try not to include allies in these discussions, unless you're recommending a particular one. Otherwise no army is going to have any weaknessess, as they can ally in units to counter them.

I also forgot to ask you guys; what would you give this faction on a scale of 1 to 5?

General Elessar wrote:

Xelee wrote:

My specific recommendation was for an allied Istari, from the dedicated allies list. Those are Gondor's spellcasters, as much as they are anyone's.

personally i would put gondor at 3.5 or 4 because they really struggle against large formations and monsters. they have no units capable of breaking an uruk-hai shield wall with 6 companies of warriors and maybe lurtz or saruman.

Author:	Sacrilege83 [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex
SBG had an excellent post of the same topic name. I've decided that WotR should have one and hopefully all the gamers here will participate. So here it is! The purpose of this post is to discuss anything that involves playing the game War of the Ring. Each week there will be a new subject presented & posted by myself. Posters must stay within the bounds of the current topic of discussion of the week. If a topic is hot I'll let it continue longer than a week until it has died down and not going past two weeks. So let the Discussions Begin! --------------------------------------------------------------------- Topic Index (always will be located here and updated) Topics will be listed in alphabetical order under their themed headings. An average 5 star rating has been given from community members based on overall general impressions of a unit/faction/hero/etc. Major Discussion Moderate Discussion Minor Discussion FACTIONS Angmar***(3.25) Pg6 Dwarf Holds*(3.75) Pg5 Elven Kingdoms*(3.5) Pg5 Fallen Realms*(4.59) Pg4 Gondor*(4.25) Pg1 You are on it! Isengard*(3.87) Pg3 Misty Mountains*(4.75) Pg5 Mordor*(4.80) Pg2 Rohan*(3) Pg4**

Author:	Sacrilege83 [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:01 pm ]
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We'll kick start this by focusing on all the factions of Wotr first. So first faction to be discussed: Topic of the Week Factions GONDOR What are your general thoughts about this faction; strengths, weaknesses, troops, playing with & against? Don't be afraid to put in your two cents if you know anything. Also rate this faction as well on a scale of 1 to 5 if you can and if you know anything on how this particular faction measures up to the rest.

Author:	isengard owns [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 6:07 pm ]
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i have found that Gondor lacks the heavy hotters that other factions have (ex. berserkers, trolls, kazad guard). they have lots of very powerful heroes. i think they have the better choices of heroes then most other factions.

Author:	BigT [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:14 pm ]
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WoMT are very tough and a little underpriced IMO. They have very strong heros like Faramir(underpriced), Boromir and Aragorn. The list is very flexible overall and has some great unit choices. Id say its prob. the strongest good faction. As was said above they dont really have powerhouse units so a good list will usually include a lot of heroics/epics coupled with a solid infantry base of WoMT and some calvary.

Author:	spuds4ever [ Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:59 pm ]
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WoMT are definetely under-priced. D7 for 25 points is pretty ridiculous IMO, especially against archery. Lots of choice, excellent heroes (a lot also under-priced IMO). No "super-soldiers" as mentioned. Weaknesses are tough to pick out really. Quite low strength everywhere perhaps and nothing in the lists to really make your opponent wet himself (like castellans).

The One Ring http://test.one-ring.co.uk/

Continuous Tactical Discussions: WotR Codex http://test.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=18896	Page 1 of 9

Author:	Xelee [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:02 am ]
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Those warriors are not under-priced, they fit what is pretty much the standard progression for costings. Compare to eg Morranan Orcs. Where they 'dodge the bullet' is in not having the misfortune to have the combination of either or both of higher fight and courage. In any case, Gondor is a force where you have affordable troops of good quality and a number of affordable Epic heroes. Most of their troops are uninspiring in terms of damage dealing but there are two notable exceptions: Axemen of Lossarnach (which are underpriced by 5pts) and Knights of Minas Tirith. Both of these have the invaluable +1 to hit, which effectively doubles casualites most of the time. Gondor cannot expect to win a shooting war. They have bows, overcosted slightly at 30pts, but no crossbows. Their bolthrower suffers from a cripplingly short range (so good in some scenarios and useless in others) while the trebuchet suffers from a very poor return in damage for the points over you eight turns, unless you get a target that is both costly and has low model-count. This means that now and then Gondor bow will be able to shoot down more numerous troops of lower quality, but can always expect to come off second best vs a serious shooting army like Isengard or anything sporting Arbalesters and either siege bows or assault ballistas. Vs armies like those, you need to have something on hand to disrupt the shooting (I find Radagast useful) and plan to put shields to the front and close the gap ASAP. Where I find Gondor good is in flexibility. There need be no 'essential' units, just plenty average to good (and always fairly tough) ones. This is an army where I like to run the Warriors in threes, the bow in threes, and the cav in fives. Axemen probably need to be 4+. Then you can skimp a little on Captains and use your numbers to frustrate the enemy and seek to get around their flanks with your more damaging units. Since there is no key units in your own force to be focused on, outnumbering works in your favour. Given the quality of your duelling heroes, you need not worry too much about getting your own heroes beaten up on. My preferred way to play is to make as much use as possible of the cheaper Epics and have them jump around where needed. I also find captains very handy to keep contributing might to set things up for the multiple unit fights you are aiming for. Captains are safe enough in infantry units, but I never put them in Cav any more. One Epic Strike and what should have been a winning charge, and followup heroic fight, generally becomes heavy casualties for the cav, with few hits inflicted by them.

Author:	hero of gondor [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:09 am ]
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Gondor is a very strong faction on it's own in Wotr but the only thing it misses are wizards. I found out in tournaments that wizards play a huge factor and gondor doesn't have them. One of the best things of gondor are the legendary formations especially the grey company is a difficult opponent. The best troop choice are warriors of arnor they only a have a lower courage and they have fight 4 def 7 combine that with some inspiring leaders and you have a strong army wich is not very thematic.

Author:	General Elessar [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:48 pm ]
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Warriors of Minas Tirith are, in my opinion, the best basic unit of any faction. Their strengths are their fairly low points cost and high defence; everything else is average meaning they have no weakness. Several people have said that Gondor has no "uber" formations, I disagree. The Grey Company is excellent, striking at the same time as cavalry. Its only weakness is its low Defence, but (because you strike first) if you use them well you should be able to inflict huge damage while suffering little. Gondor has good Heroes, most notably Faramir and (to a lesser extent) Boromir. Faramir boasts 4 Might, Epic Strike, and Valour Unbound for only 90pts. Boromir, though expensive at 175pts, is a brilliant duelist using a combination of Epic Strike, Epic Duel, and 6 Might to take down enemy Heroes. There are few weaknesses that burden Gondor players. The most prominent is that there are no spellcasters available. Another is a lack of good artillery. The Avenger Bolt thrower can be good, but it suffers the worst range of any artillery. The trebuchet is different, it has a long range but it is very expensive and not as reliable.

Author:	Xelee [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 8:26 pm ]
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General Elessar, the Grey company attracts a lot of new players, but when you have a look at their stats vs cost, you see they are really a pretty average unit (compared to what you could buy instead for the points), and often a magnet for missile fire. They are good at a few different things, but not great. In particular, they have neither the melee damage nor unit size of Axemen of Lossarnach. What you will find, is that most of the time striking first does little good, since most people take formations big enough to weather a few rounds of casualties and keep a full frontage for hits back. Rather than being 'uber', they are merely 'jack of all trades'. They are something characterful for those bigger 2000+ plus games, but at lower levels normal rangers and the sharing of Epics is IMO more efficient. If I were to reccomend any of the legendaries to a starting player, it would be 'Osgiliath Veterans'. Not only are they a good use of spare bow figures fro your staring boxes, they do 'jack of all trades' better than any other in the list. Gondor's spell casters are in the dedicated allies list, Forgotten Kingdoms. While not a 'must have', I think a spell caster is something that should be looked at to solve certain problems. All of the Istari (well not overcosted Gandalf the White, obviously) are good choices, though I prefer Radagast.

Author:	Edraitheru [ Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:51 pm ]
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Who says Gondor does not have wizards they have the white wizard and that has to count for something.

Author:	HRM [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:05 pm ]
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Gondor has a LOT of variety in it's list - personally, I find that's the most troublesome thing about it, from the perspective of a Gondorian opponent. I find that, as a Rohan player, there is VERY little that I can do that they can't do better - with the possible exception of the "Stick-n-move" strategy. True, they have no wizards, but they have exceptional Legendary Formations and Epics, and their regular foot infantry are great for the cost. I've never beaten Gondor, but I've come close. Gotta keep on, keepin' on!

Author:	General Elessar [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:11 pm ]
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Xelee wrote: Gondor's spell casters are in the dedicated allies list, Forgotten Kingdoms. While not a 'must have', I think a spell caster is something that should be looked at to solve certain problems. All of the Istari (well not overcosted Gandalf the White, obviously) are good choices, though I prefer Radagast. I think we should try not to include allies in these discussions, unless you're recommending a particular one. Otherwise no army is going to have any weaknessess, as they can ally in units to counter them. I like the Osgiliath Veterans too, but I find them too expensive, 120pts and then 35pts per company is too much.

Author:	hero of gondor [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:17 pm ]
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Agree with that osigliath veterans are too much and the grey company is really a uber formation I think with there longbowes they can wittle the enemy down and in close combat they strike very hard with fight 4 and strength 4 and at the same time as calvary.

Author:	Xelee [ Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:15 pm ]
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General Elessar wrote: Xelee wrote: I think we should try not to include allies in these discussions, unless you're recommending a particular one. Otherwise no army is going to have any weaknessess, as they can ally in units to counter them. My specific recommendation was for an allied Istari, from the dedicated allies list. Those are Gondor's spellcasters, as much as they are anyone's. Osgiliath Veterans are surprisingly good against Monsters and also become useful if you get defensible terrain to put them in, since they shoot out of it and are hard to dislodge in melee. Generally, I prefer their points in warriors and archers, but the legendary formation has never failed to be useful and I reccomend them to any new player, who may not have the figs for a troop heavy army. Monsters sometimes nibble away at massed formations with impunity, and the more expensive Osgiliath unit will probably pay for itself in that situation. I like to field a lot of troops, and have wavered between 25 and 30 companies for the 1000pt army. However, I think the 25 coy version is better vs some matchups. Sometimes you need extra capabilities more than you need more troops.

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Author:	Sacrilege83 [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:55 am ]
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I also forgot to ask you guys; what would you give this faction on a scale of 1 to 5?

Author:	HRM [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:46 pm ]
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Sacrilege83 wrote: I also forgot to ask you guys; what would you give this faction on a scale of 1 to 5? Probably a 4 or a 4.5 I guess. I personally consider Gondor, along with Mordor, to be the most competitive and flexible army you can run.

Author:	General Elessar [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:55 pm ]
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Xelee wrote: General Elessar wrote: Xelee wrote: I think we should try not to include allies in these discussions, unless you're recommending a particular one. Otherwise no army is going to have any weaknessess, as they can ally in units to counter them. My specific recommendation was for an allied Istari, from the dedicated allies list. Those are Gondor's spellcasters, as much as they are anyone's. I meant to a be a bit more specific, but never mind. I would give Gondor a rating of 5: it has no real weaknessess (except the lack of Magic) and is the best faction in several areas.

Author:	Xelee [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:59 pm ]
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General Elessar, I am genuinely mystified as to what is not sufficiently specific about an Istari? I am not sure what you are going with this? We all have our favourite one, but all three of them, aside from Gandalf the White, are good choices and could reasonably have fought alongside Gondor at some point in time. They all have something going for them and all can do the same job. I'd rate Gondor a 4, as long as you take all the better options available to it. Mordor would be a 5. However, I don't personally think army rankings are meaningful. I could easily produce a more powerful list out of the Isengard selections, with allies, and in general it is a straightforward matter to make any evil list more effective than a good one simply by focusing on 1. Their bargain heroes (Durburz, Druzhag, Thrydan, Gothmog), 2. the Ringwraiths, 3. Crossbows. On the other hand I would say that out of the Good lists alone, Gondor is most definitely a 5. Points levels and interpretations of certain rules will be a factor there though.

Author:	isengard owns [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:36 pm ]
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personally i would put gondor at 3.5 or 4 because they really struggle against large formations and monsters. they have no units capable of breaking an uruk-hai shield wall with 6 companies of warriors and maybe lurtz or saruman.

Author:	spuds4ever [ Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:44 pm ]
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isengard owns wrote: personally i would put gondor at 3.5 or 4 because they really struggle against large formations and monsters. they have no units capable of breaking an uruk-hai shield wall with 6 companies of warriors and maybe lurtz or saruman. Not really. WoMT and uruks will still be wounding eachother on 6s the uruks just have +1 fight (not a big deal to be honest). And anyway, they have KoDA and FKoDA which could smash the snot out of uruks any day.