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 Post subject: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:33 pm 
Wayfarer
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Hi fellas, in WAR of the RING mass battle game, when the Mumak stampedes it states that it must move/turn in a random directiopn. How do you decide the direction and who decides. Is it the opponent or the owner of the Mumak. Many thanks in anticipation.

Also if both players call an Epic Strike do they just cancel each other out?
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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:46 pm 
Craftsman
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From the Official Update Version 1.1

Factions: Fallen Kingdoms
Q. If my Mûmak stampedes, how do I determine random
direction for a stampede? (p198)
A. It’s entirely up to you and your opponent. You can use
an ordinary D6 and assign a compass point to each result
and do it that way, use a spinner or any other method that
you can both agree upon.

You can PM me and I will send you the PDF file for it.

And I think that both Epic Heros would get Epic Strike, maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:38 am 
Craftsman
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a scatter dice from warhammer would prob be easiest or a d10 and go in the direction of the longest point of the triangle facing

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:50 pm 
Elven Elder
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Rangefinder got there.

If two heroes call Epic Strike, regardless of whether they are on the same side, or enemies, near each other or far away, they both get fight 10. Unless one of them is in a formation with two-handed weapons in which case he is Fight 9, exept in duelds in which he is still fight 10. Also, other heroes cannot benefit from that hero's ES they must call their own, and the general consemnsus is that Epic Heroes cannot join Mumakil.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:22 pm 
Kinsman
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Also, other heroes cannot benefit from that hero's ES they must call their own, and the general consemnsus is that Epic Heroes cannot join Mumakil.


Iv heard of this before but I cant seem to find a rule to back this thought up, am i missing something?

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:00 pm 
Elven Elder
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Which part are you referring to?

If its the former, then its because it clearly state that the Epic Hero raises his own fight to 10, not the fight of his company.

If you mean the latter, then its speculation based on the fact that the Mumak is a monster, and EHs can't join monsters.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:40 pm 
Kinsman
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Yeah I know epic strike raises the hero's fight value but im confused as to why another hero in the same company dosn't benefit from it.
Page 64 of the rule book states if a company led by a hero is in a fight then the company uses the hero's fight value instead of their own. It also says if more than one hero is present that the highest fight value available is used.

So if a hero calls epic strike, surley another hero in the same company would then use the other hero's fight value.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:59 pm 
Elven Elder
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No, they do not. The company does use the Epic Strike in melee, but another hero cannot use ES in their own duel.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:05 am 
Kinsman
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
No, they do not. The company does use the Epic Strike in melee, but another hero cannot use ES in their own duel.


Do you have a reference to the rules to back that up?

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 Post subject: Re: Stormcrow
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:34 am 
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Epic Strike pg 69
Fight pg 64 - Determines 'Battle Skill Modifier'. No mention that it determines Fight Value for Heroic Duels.
Battle Skill Modifier pg. 49 - Its a 'Combat Modifier'.
Fight Procedure pg. 46 - Combat modifier's are applied in step 3) b.

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 Post subject: Re: Stormcrow
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:14 am 
Kinsman
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Slythar wrote:
Epic Strike pg 69
Fight pg 64 - Determines 'Battle Skill Modifier'. No mention that it determines Fight Value for Heroic Duels.
Battle Skill Modifier pg. 49 - Its a 'Combat Modifier'.
Fight Procedure pg. 46 - Combat modifier's are applied in step 3) b.


Page four of the official update states the following:
Q) Does an epic strike affect the hero's fight for both a heroic duel and the ensuing fight?
A) Yes- there's gunna be a whuppin.


So my thought is as follows:
Two hero's are within the same company. Hero A calls a heroic duel at the start of the fight phase. Hero B calls epic strike before the fight takes place. As hero A is in the same company as hero B he uses the highest fight value available, as stated in the rules, that fight value being that of hero B who has called epic strike raising his fight to 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:42 pm 
Elven Elder
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Wrong dear fellow. Epic Strike raises the fight value of the Hero A who called it to 10. During melee, the company may use the highest fight value, which would be Hero A. Hero B is in the company, but he is not the company, and the rules state that the company may use the highest fight, not models in the company, so he cannot use Hero A's fight value, he must use his own.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:23 pm 
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I don't understand why hero b is not part of the company or even hero a , what determines in a company and the company ?
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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:26 pm 
Kinsman
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Gothmog,
I appreciate your thoughts on this but once again you have stated your opinion without any reference to the rules. I dont understand what you are saying, if a character is placed in a company how can he not be part of a company? Please could you explain how the rules lead you to your conclusion?

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Last edited by Stormcrow on Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:30 pm 
Kinsman
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Wrong dear fellow. Epic Strike raises the fight value of the Hero A who called it to 10. During melee, the company may use the highest fight value, which would be Hero A. Hero B is in the company, but he is not the company, and the rules state that the company may use the highest fight, not models in the company, so he cannot use Hero A's fight value, he must use his own.


Sorry iv just read this again and I can't make any sense of it! If a model is in a company how can he not be in a company, and what is "THE" company if not the 8 models that are placed in the company?

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:34 pm 
Elven Elder
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Firstly, I did not say that a model is in company but isn't in a company. I said the model is in the company, but the model is not the company. A model cannot bpth be the company and be inside it.

In heroic duels, a Hero uses their own fight value, not the highest fight value in their company:

Quote:
Both Heroes roll a D6 and add their relative Fight value.


Epic Strike increases the Hero's fight value to 10:

Quote:
...his Fight value is increased to 10 until the end of the phase


The second hero cannot use the Epic strike because Epic Strike increases his fight value, not the Fight value of the company.

You are partially confused by this:

Quote:
If the company contains more than one Hero, it uses the the highest Fight value present.


The it refers to the company, not the hero. Another hero cannot use a fight value in a duel that is not his own. Perhaps explaining this sentence will also help:

Quote:
If a company is led by a Hero in a fight, the company uses his Fight value, rather than its own, to determine its battle-skill combat modifier


Nowhere in that sence does it say that the company uses the fight value in duels, only for combat modifiers. Even if the company did use the fight value for everything, this would not matter because companies cannot take part in duels unless the company itself eg Treebeard is a hero. Heroes that join a company do not turn into the company.

In short, only the Epic hero that called Epic Strike can use it in a duel. The Fight 10 helps the hero that called it in a duel, and it help for battle-skill modifiers, but the Fight value does not carry into another hero in the company for duels.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:36 pm 
Elven Elder
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D0Cdeath wrote:
I don't understand why hero b is not part of the company or even hero a , what determines in a company and the company ?

A hero is in a company. Command upgrades are in the company. Everything else is the company.

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 Post subject: Re: Rule query for the Mumak elephant
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:12 pm 
Kinsman
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Gothmog, that makes sense!!!!
It helps when you refer to the rules rather than just saying that is wrong or this is right, i get it now.
Cheers.

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