Uh, Beowulf I'm just playing SBG, there are a bit less models in that.. So.. I can't really say what effects the rule would have in WotR. So far it has worked just fine, the lower courage isn't a huge penalty, but still makes a difference.

Besides, everyone can't be expected to have the same standard of painting as your gaming club.. =P

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Gold, silver, mithril.. You call that stuff treassure? Copper is the real deal!

Why would you do thise. just have fun and play a GAME. i dont have money to paint all my guys and freuquently play wherever we can.
This is just a GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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and the sun rises

You may have joined the wrong site here... this is a site where people who enjoy the Lord of the Rings come, not to say "I like this game" and leave it at that, we're here to discuss Tactics, show off our minis, debate GW's prices. To most of the members here, it is more than "just a game". One of the House Rules that has been proposed is this, -1 courage rule. It is, in my opinion, a very good rule, and one I'd gladly agree to in any match I play.

We're not saying this has to become a rule. It's an incentive, to encourage to play with painted minis. You have to admit, a fully paited army of minis is much better than an unpainted one. I'm not saying you have to have your armies painted, or that anyone does, it's merely a suggestion that Nurin was making.

Now, I don't actually have that many painted minis either, but I do agree that it's a good suggestion. Painted models are, as far asi I know, more realistic than large chunks of moulded metal ro plastic. Because that's all they are, isn't it? The reason people paint them is to make them more natural, personal, etc. It doesn't change the rules in any way, which is why Nurin has come up with this idea in the first place.

I can understand why you would be confused about this idea; a few years ago when I started the hobby I would have totally disagreed as well. But to veteran gamers it's a good idea. They're probably bored of seeing unpainted armies on the field, and this rule is a brilliant one to solve that - you don't lose to much if they're unpainted, but it's something you'd rather keep.


So with that, I think I'll end my reply. Sorry if I came across as a bit angry, but you did seem rather insulting to us hobbyists.

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"Mustard the Rohirrim! We've got to ketchup with those Uruk-fries before they capture the Hornburger!"

i like nurins idea

but here's anotther idea: this rule they used to do in a game shop while playing tournament. basicly its like this: major victories and losses get you point for the tournament, but a whole army painted(at least painted with 4colours, so primers doesnt count) get you points as well and if you've converted mini's you get points. you get points as well if you're lome-list are correct(just basic point for everyone). and the shop owner gives someone points for an original army.

of course you get more points with playing matches.

but this rule-thing does only works if you play a tournament with more people

so your hous-rule is a great thing for playing a match with someone once in a while

I do enjoy the lord of the rings imensly. but i dont have the time or money to do anything but play. I am trully sorry if i offended anyone, but if everyone sees this as more than a game, than i probally am on the wrong site.

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and the sun rises

WARNING - Rant Imminent.



I honestly wouldn't worry about it. And I wouldn't worry about people suggesting that you are on the wrong site.

@ Ingold. First of all, don't take this as a personal attack. It is merely an observation.



If that really is the case, then why is it that certain members, yourself included as you already admit, don't have WIP threads or gallery shots? There is absolutely no reason to suggest that this site is focused on any of the above scenarios. The truth is, it is focussed on them all, and many more besides. If someone joins up just to make some rules queries, then that is perfectly acceptable. They don't have to make any sort of contribution beforehand. If someone is a member just to have access to the article database, then that is fine.

Otherwise, I think you'll find that we would need to cull a huge amount of members based on a 0 post count, empty gallery or lack of painted miniatures on show.

In a similar vein, I'm sure there are many members who don't visit certain areas of the site. Would you suggest that anyone who hasn't made a rules query in the last 12 months be removed, as they aren't really taking part?



NOWHWERE does it mention painted... Oh, wait, it does.



Note the use of the word 'don't.'


As far as I am concerned, any rule that PENALISES people who do not have the time/skill/motivation/energy/money to play with a fully painted army is counter-intuitive to the enjoyment of the hobby anyway. Maybe if you offered an incentive for fully painted models, that would be a different story, but, outside of a tournament setting, there are no rules in place to govern painting as a prerequisite to gaming. If it was a requirement that models were to be used fully painted, then, they would come that way.

It is a game. Pure and simple. End of story. Now, some of us may take more from it that that, which is perfectly fine, but really, that's all it is. We have a great community here, and I am happy to say I have made some very close friends with some members, and I can't recall ever seeing a situation where someone hasn't been welcomed into the community whether they paint their minis or not. So, to say that someone is on the wrong site is completely fallacious. We are all on the same site, because we all love this hobby for one or more reasons.

To suggest that people should have fully painted models is very close to generating an elitist attitude, one that, I have witnessed elsewhere, and it creates a nasty divide. It's really not something we need. If two people sit down to play a game, one having a fully painted army, and the other having a non-painted army, why should the player with the painted army have the advantage? Perhaps the player with the unpainted army has spent their time refining tactics, and will outplay their opponent throughout the game. Why should a lack of free-time to paint preclude someone from participating in playing the game as originally intended?



Personally, I do not play with unpainted models. That was my own choice, made solely to provoke me into tackling my own backlog. I could very easily reverse my decision, and play much larger games, but, it's worked so far.

Now, I work full time. Frequently do overtime taking me to 6 nights a week at work. I have a house to run. A girlfriend. Two kids under 3 years old. And an Xbox 360...

By rights, I shouldn't have any free time. But I make it. It is my choice to push myself to my physical boundary in regards to sleep deprivation, in order to churn out as many models as I do. Nobody is forcing me. Yes, I think that a fully painted army is a spectacle to behold, and yes, two is even better. Add in a decent gaming table replete with scenery and it is as close to (aesthetically) perfect as you can get. But, I would never, EVER, refuse to play a game against an unpainted army.

Why would I deprive myself of throwing down against a new opponent?

Why would I deprive myself of learning more about how my army works?

Why would I deprive myself of testing out my newest acuisitions?

Why would I deprive myself of maybe making a new gaming nemesis?

Most importantly -

Why would I deprive myself the opportunity to HAVE FUN playing?

Because that is what this is all about. Enjoyment. We play the game to have fun. If it isn't, something is wrong. We paint, because it is fun. If it isn't we don't. We make up uber lists to take all challengers because it is fun. if it isn't, we stick to scenario play.

My gaming time is severely limited. I can make time for painting, especially on a rare night off when the rest of the house is asleep, and I can sit up until the sun comes up, brush in hand. When I get the chance to game, that is what I want to do.


And before anyone else says it. Yes, the Tale of 9 Gamers does run contrary to the above view. Yes, I will jump on people who don't stick to the deadlines. Yes, I will defenestrate all the slackers.

But that is what they signed up for. It was set out as a challenge. A personal motivator to get those models painted and ready for the table. The rules were made very clear, and everyone knew what they were getting into. Not everyone is doing it, but, hopefully, everyone who is keeping at it is having fun. I know I am. It has been a blast the past 10 months, the challenge of doing it all for the viewing spectacle of your peers, the camaraderie, the sniping. Just knowing that people get enjoyment out of READING the thread.

I have probably painted more models this year, than in the last 20, and a large part of that is down to the community here. Yes, a lot of it is personal satisfaction, knowing that I can force myself to do it, but, I'll hold my hand up to being guilty of Pride, and enjoying the fact that I can wow you with my latest over-the-top scheme or project. I know I am not a great painter, there are much better painters on this site alone, but I can still make your jaws drop. I can get a kick out of the stunned reactions, and, that in itself, provides a motivation to paint more.




Because I'm having fun.

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Studio gaarew; Gaming armies, by gamers, for gamers.

Aargh, I can't dispute such a long post.


To be honest, you're right as usual John. But nevertheless, you have to admit I'm a well-known and helpful member on the site. At no point in my post did I say he HAD to join to discuss tactics and only that, in fact my earlier opening paragraph, was probably slightly wrong. My main reason for being here is to socialise really, and to discuss the books and films rather than the hobby. I did not however, state that

Dernathala, I'm more sorry if I've caused you to have a traumatic experience that will turn you off LotR forever, I was rather tires this morning (I set my alarm for 6am for no reason ). I was however, slightly (and I do mean slightly) offended by your posting in here merely to say how bad the idea seemed to you. It is a house-rule after all, the meaning of this being that you don't have to use it if you disagreee wtith it.



Gaarew, I'm deeply traumatised and distraught by your attack, I might just le- oh, it's an observation.
This is, if you read the original post, as I assume you did, a house rule. You know better than I that that means all the players must agree to it: in other words, if someone doesn't want to be penalised for unpainted minis he doesn't have to be. They did mention that a stat bonus for painted models would be rather unfair:

So, I'm not arguing with you John, just saying it's an optional, as opposed to an enforced, rule. I am of course, glad to see that some-one's finally reading my posts. Maybe I should start a WiP.


(I think we may have derailed this topic...)

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So, back to the orignial subject, that is a House Rule I would agree to Nurin, so long as I have more painted minis than my opponent. In other words, people will only agree with you half the time.

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"Mustard the Rohirrim! We've got to ketchup with those Uruk-fries before they capture the Hornburger!"

Well, I must say, I do like this rule and it'd definitely motivate me to get on with finishing them (and stick to one army) the only problem for me is lack of LoTR players.

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"If you can imagine something, then it is possible."
-Whiskas, 26th May, 2009

Actually, in my experience, a house rule is an unofficial ruling that either a player or group have at their gaming location. If you actually go to someone's house, you are expected to abide by their house rules. Similarly, a gaming group will generally have some sort of house rule system in operation, but where does this leave the new guy? He can't just waltz in and demand that the group change their methods just for him, much as the group shouldn't be forcing him to immediately adapt to their way of doing things. The alternative is to forgo playing. If I turned up somewhere for a game, for the first time, with an unpainted army and was told, 'Oh yeah, your Orcs are Courage 1 by the way, seeing as you haven't painted them,' then I'd be packing them up before the game even started.

As I said, having read the entire thread, I would be more inclined to agree with giving the people who are painting an incentive to do so, rather than penalising those that can't/haven't/won't/don't want to.

Perhaps something along the lines of 1 re-roll per 10 fully painted models. You want something to gild the lily, but, at the same time, does not offer a significant advantage. It might cause people to focus on more troop-heavy forces, but, at the end of the day, it isn't going to break the system. Giving most Evil models a 50% Courage penalty is far more influential on the game. It's hard enough to roll an 8 to pass those tests, never mind making it a 9...



There really is no need to be offended that someone doesn't like the idea. Hell, it wasn't even your idea. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about it. I don't like it at all. I think I made it clear above that it runs against the entire spirit of the game. I can see the application should all parties agree, but I don't think it fosters a very good community spirit for new members to any group using it.

Like I said, from the Rule Book, there is no requirement to paint the miniatures, people do it because they enjoy it. Same reason we play, make up scenarios, army lists, fan fiction, because we enjoy it.

When it stops being fun, it stops being worthwhile doing...

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Studio gaarew; Gaming armies, by gamers, for gamers.