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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:04 pm 
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Not really, I sort of glanced at them. From what I can remember, there's only one (maybe two :roll: ) battlehosts availabe for Easterlings.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:24 pm 
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I am overall very pleased with how this release is shaping out.
The morgul knights and KoDA are both superb....the best things i've seen come out in the lotr range for quite some time but as awesome as the know KoDA are I think the morgul knights take the cake...huge improvement over the old metals.
the rest are decent for the most part. mauhur and his comand are good the blackroot archers are good but I think dunhir looks a little funny with his shakespeare style leather chaps and tight shoes.
Faramir isn't brilliant but hes not terrible either.
Overall not bad, not bad at all...soo much better than what we've been treated to lately especially with the harad release. THOSE were the ugliest things I had ever seen

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:51 pm 
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I really only care for the plastic sets. I will definitly be getting the Ogiliath set, but probably neither of the boxes actually containing miniatures (I may get the SKoDA somewhere down the line eventually).

Whats going on with Faramir? What drove GW to feel the need to create a miniature like that? I just really don't like it. I also don't like the continued expansion of GW invented characters, but I suppose they will do what is necessary to not only attract Warhammer players but continue to recieve sales.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:54 pm 
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Jamros wrote:
I also don't like the continued expansion of GW invented characters, but I suppose they will do what is necessary to not only attract Warhammer players but continue to recieve sales.


But there aren't any invented characters in this release. All of them are directly from Tolkien.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:24 am 
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Quote:
But there aren't any invented characters in this release. All of them are directly from Tolkien.


The Dwimmerlaik was not named the Dwimmerlaik. There was no name for the 9th nazgul. And the background was made up.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:25 am 
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Indeed, both Mauhur and Dunhir are both legitimate, albeit obscure characters from Tolkiens works.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:59 am 
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Sorry, I was refering mostly to the named Nazgul. The unecessary broad generalization is entirely my bad; I scrolled through the other characters and assumed they were also made up.

I apologize. :oops:
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:04 am 
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Jamros wrote:

I apologize. :oops:


No need. :wink:

The Dwimmerlaik slipped my mind, as he is indeed a GW invention. At least the name is drawn directly from Tolkien though. I agree with you for the most part, I've never been a fan of GW's made up chracters with a few exceptions. Suladan I like a lot, though he at least draws some inspiration from an unamed Haradrim Chieftain in the books. I also like most of the invented Dwarves. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:16 am 
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DarkWind wrote:
Once again, the LotR range has been left with the worst paint jobs GW can do. Other than that - I love the 3 plastic sets. The Uruks are also excellent, and Faramir would look much better with a decent paint job. Duinhir is ok, his command arent great IMO, but once again, the paint jobs ruin them.


I reckon those paintjobs would look absolutely fine or even great on 1:1 scale miniatures. Don't forget that the images on your PC are scaled up by about 1500%.

2x Swan Knight boxes
2x Morgul Knight boxes
2x Uruk Guy
2x Uruk Scout command
1-2x Faramir
1x Nazgul
2x Ruins
2x Archer Command
1x Archer Guy

Why? And why multiples of each?
Future-proofing. I'd guess all of the metals here will be on GW Splash release, and only available for 1-3 months, then only from GW direct afterwards, which makes them a right pain to get hold of (from the UK) or inoordinately priced (from GWAU) here in Australia where the figures at retail cost double the exchange rate.

The other reason is that the Uruks and Archers seem a little more generic than many of the other "named" figures. I might pick up a second Helmingas Command at some stage to simply be a Rohirrim foot banner and musician.

And probably a second Faramir for my wife to paint, mine will probably be standing in for Imrahil.

edit - added after reading the full thread:

Sacrilege83 wrote:
I've seen older models from years ago that look way better than their new stuff. Demons of Khorne for example. The metals looked way more badass than the plastic versions.


What? The ridiculous cartoonish-looking "Conan" Bloodletters? The new plastics are miles ahead of them. They went back to the original designs to base the new plastics off. Realm of Chaos - Slaves to Darkness circa 1988.

A lot of the old-style piling on GW bashing going on in this thread as well. I'm all for criticism, but a lot of the posts here just make me laugh as they're the same comments almost word for word that I used to hear from some people more than 10 years ago about new releases and such for 40k and WFB etc.

I look forward to seeing pictures of some of theOneRider's latest sculpts as well. I checked out your gallery, and while you have some nice models, I don't think you're at the same level as these releases at this point.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:34 am 
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Longbottom Leaf wrote:
Jamros wrote:

I apologize. :oops:


No need. :wink:

The Dwimmerlaik slipped my mind, as he is indeed a GW invention. At least the name is drawn directly from Tolkien though. I agree with you for the most part, I've never been a fan of GW's made up chracters with a few exceptions. Suladan I like a lot, though he at least draws some inspiration from an unamed Haradrim Chieftain in the books. I also like most of the invented Dwarves. :)


I think Suladan is actually in the books but he isn't named.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:46 am 
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Jamros wrote:
Whats going on with Faramir? What drove GW to feel the need to create a miniature like that? I just really don't like it.


Games Workshop wrote:
The new metal miniatures are designed to work with existing plastic sets: with a couple of sets of Knights of Minas Tirith and Faramir you can field Faramir's Knights, a formation that will fight to the death rather than give an inch to the enemy.


The new Faramir is to be used in one of the Battlehosts. I have a feeling there will be a Battlehost including the Swan Knights and a Morgul Knight Battlehost, which is why these minis are being released with Battlehosts.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:05 am 
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Suladan is in the book he is called the black serpent gw just gave him a name he was slain by Theoden
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:36 pm 
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what about the new spray gun?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Erurainon the Trombonist wrote:
The new Faramir is to be used in one of the Battlehosts. I have a feeling there will be a Battlehost including the Swan Knights and a Morgul Knight Battlehost, which is why these minis are being released with Battlehosts.


As I said, I had a look yesterday at the Battlehost book. There is a battlehost that is entirely Dol Amroth; not sure about Morgul Knights.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Evan wrote:
what about the new spray gun?

That was an April Fools Joke. :P

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:22 pm 
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I havent read through the whole post but i got hold of a copy of it yesterday and from what me and my friends worked out there arent that many battlehosts that are too brilliant pointswise.

Some of the special battlehost rules do seem quite nice for the points cost but some are ridiculously overpriced, same for the new fortunes and fates which are available only when you buy a battlehost from that faction. I looked mainly at the dwarves and elves ones, and a couple of them looked pretty awesome, many looked simply useless or overpriced.

The other problem is that there is no WoTR FAQ in it like some people thought there would be. :(

Also, my gw is giving out a free sprue of swan knights or morgul knights when you buy the book. No idea if it will be all gw's but free sprue is never bad. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Queen Berúthiel wrote:
Suladan is in the book he is called the black serpent gw just gave him a name he was slain by Theoden


That is not Suladan. That is an unamed Haradrim Chieftain, who is implied to be either their leader or a high ranking officer. GW used that character for inspiration, and also combined him with the historical figure Saladin, thusly making Suladan. They then wrote quite a bit of fluff about him in both The Battle of Pelennor Fields book and the Harad book.

Free spures with the book? That sounds very generous of them. Has anyone seen the new spures in person? And, would anyone who has possibly be so kind as to give us a bit of a rundown on them? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Longbottom Leaf wrote:
Has anyone seen the new spures in person? And, would anyone who has possibly be so kind as to give us a bit of a rundown on them? :)


I've seen the Dol Amroth sprue. Do you have any specific questions about it?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Erurainon the Trombonist wrote:
Jamros wrote:
Whats going on with Faramir? What drove GW to feel the need to create a miniature like that? I just really don't like it.


Games Workshop wrote:
The new metal miniatures are designed to work with existing plastic sets: with a couple of sets of Knights of Minas Tirith and Faramir you can field Faramir's Knights, a formation that will fight to the death rather than give an inch to the enemy.


The new Faramir is to be used in one of the Battlehosts. I have a feeling there will be a Battlehost including the Swan Knights and a Morgul Knight Battlehost, which is why these minis are being released with Battlehosts.


Why is it that the old mounted Faramir, dressed in armor similar to that of the Knights of Gondor, would not be used for this formation? I didn't mean I wouldn't like that idea, I meant that I didn't like the miniature.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:13 am 
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I was reading Warseer again and one of the readers posted a nice and detailed run down of the book and its contents.

reinholt wrote:
I have now seen parts of this book, thanks to a couple of my sources, so here are my notes:

Battlehosts are self-contained formations that work as follows:

1 - The cost of the formation is xx points + the cost of the units within the battlehost.

2 - The contents of any battlehost are as follows: one or more epic heroes / legendary formations, one or more standard formations, and one or more optional formations. Each formation is listed with the number of companies that may be taken, so for example, the Swan Knights battlehost might include Imrahil between 2-4 formations of Knights of Dol Amroth (with 3+ companies per formation) and 0-2 formations of Men at Arms of Dol Amroth (with 2+ companies per formation). Note: These are not the actual numbers, just examples.

3 - Each battlehost has special rules that apply to the units within the battlehost, and sometimes pertain to being within a certain range of the leader of the battlehost (or with that character in the unit).

4 - There are a set of fortunes and fates specific to each army that may only be taken if a battlehost for that army is taken. As an example, the Gondor & Arnor fates may only be taken if a Gondor & Arnor battlehost is included in the army.

5 - Battlehosts do not count towards the decree of rarity, and stand outside the usual organization, similar to a Legendary formation. However, taking a battlehost from another army list means that the entire cost of the battlehost counts against the allies allowance.

6 - There are way more than 10 battlehosts. I clearly don't recall them all (so this list is not exhaustive), but here are some that I recall:

Gondor & Arnor:
- Knights of Minas Tirith with Faramir as the leader
- A Swan Knights formation with Imrahil as the leader
- The defenders of Minas Tirith with Gandalf and Peregrine Took
- Denethor's personal guard, with both Faramir and Boromir, as well as several of the elite Gondor units (like the guardians of the fountain court)
- A ranger-heavy formation with the Ithilien rangers led by Faramir
- The united fiefdoms force led by Forlong the Fat including axemen, clansmen, and the blackroot vale archers

Rohan:
- Theoden and his personal bodyguard
- Erkenbrand along with either Erkenbrand's riders or riders of rohan (who have the spectacular special rule that the units in the battlehost fight at the same time as monsters)
- Eomer's riders, with gandalf and riders of rohan allowed in the formation

Elven Kingdoms:
- A wood elf heavy battlehost with wood elves, sentinels, the option to take legolas, and thranduil as the leader
- A rivendell based list with Gildor, Elrond, Elladan, Elrohir, and multiple high elf units
- A lothlorien list led by Galadriel and Celeborn with multiple galadhrim formations allowed
- Haldir's elves at helm's deep, with Haldir leading and Galadhrim infantry as the bulk of the formation

Dwarf Holds:
- An Erebor list led by Dain, with a large smattering of dwarves as the choices
- Drar's hunters, with more dwarf rangers (I recall them having a few very interesting special rules, such as 6" move for the units in the formation and master pathfinders, as well as the ability to move 6" and still shoot bows)

Forgotten Kingdoms:
- The last march of the ents (treebeard plus many ents)
- The shire's defense forces (with multiple hobbit formations, gandalf, and some of the other hobbits)

Mordor:
- The gorgoroth horde (a 12-18 company formation of orcs, with potentially multiple captains and all weapon options considered to be had by the formation - sword/shield, bow, two-handed weapons)
- A winged nazgul formation
- The fortress of barad-dur (led by the mouth, with orcs and black guard, as well as some black numenoreans)
- Morgul rats (stalkers, Gorbag's guys, and more orcs)
- Shagrat's guard at cirith ungol
- Gothmog's boys (multiple units of morannon orcs and gothmog)
- A siege formation of orcs (gothmog, grishnak, flaming catapults that ignore cover, orcs, and trolls)
- A formation of multiple units of Morgul Knights led by either the dark marshal or the Mouth.

Isengard:
- The fighting uruk-hai led by saruman
- A scouting formation led by lurtz, with multiple uruk-hai scout units, possibly including ugluk and mauhir
- A scouting formation led by Ugluk, with the capture hobbits from Amon Hen, including some orc units, Mauhir, and scouts (with multiple special rules, including D10 vs. shooting at the units with hobbits in them to represent heroes not wanting to shoot the hobbits, the ability to eat orcs to feed the uruk-hai, and Mauhir's boys ambushing)
- A siege formation led by Vrashku

Misty Mountains:
- A misty mountains formation of massed goblins led by Durburz or a Balrog
- A misty mountains formation of beasts led by Druzhag

Fallen Realms:
- Khamul leading Kataphrakts, Archers, and Warriors for the Easterlings
- Suladan leading serpent guard
- Dalamyr leading a corsair army (with the corsairs gaining berserk, making them actually worth fielding, though needing to be within 12" of Dalamyr or having an increased chance of hurting themselves when berserk) of normal corsairs and arbalesters
- The Betrayer and/or the Knight of Umbar leading a combined force of Harad
- The Gold King of Abrakhan (with special rules similar to his LotR Skirmish rules) leading Haradrim, with Khandish allies and half-trolls possible
- A Mahud Warband (with a mumak)
- A tide of mumaks (3-6, if I recall)
- A watchers of karna themed battlehost (where the units gain enchanted cloaks)

Angmar:
- A formation of carn-dum barbarians and angmar orcs led by the Witch King
- A spirit heavy formation led by the Tainted and/or the Dwimmerlaik with multiple special rules for the spirits to increase their effectiveness (more strength near the Tainted, more defense near the Dwimmerlaik, with shades that do not impact the ability of the spirits, only non-battlehost units)
- Burhdur's warband (with everything ambushing, and units from the misty mountains rolled in and not counting against the allies allowance)

Overall, the book seemed pretty well balanced. I didn't see too many things that were pointed poorly, and some of the weaker choices in War of the Ring (corsairs, spirits, some of the gondor formations) got major boosts by being part of the battlehost that they are included in, giving a much stronger reason to field these units.

So far, I am extremely pleased with what I have seen overall from the book.

Enjoy.


Any thoughts guys? :)

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