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 Post subject: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountains?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:38 am 
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Just thinking about it, if it was too dangerous to go through the gap of Rohan, Moria, Caradras or the Northern wastes, why not head south and travel through perfectly safe lands? It would take a bit longer but it would certainly have been easier.
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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:31 pm 
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It wouldn't nearly have been epic enough. When you're on a mission like that, you've got to be as dramatic as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:59 pm 
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It would probably have still been to close to Isengard. Also, I think there's a river there as well, which might have been impassable.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:06 am 
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General Elessar is right

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:41 pm 
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The south of Arnor is a desolate waste. They'd arrive at the shore and have to build a boat to get down the coast and up the river to Pelargir. Or they'd have to swing wide of the Gap of Rohan and cross the White Mountains. Either way they bring the ring through Gondor, probably exactly what Gandalf was trying to avoid. Crossing the Misty Mountains they could get to Lothlorien, probably the last real safe haven between the north and Mordor.
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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:15 pm 
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-You would bring the ring right to the hearth of gondor.
-It would still be very close to Isengard/Dunland.
-This route would take a lot of time and there was no time for sightseeing.
-Gondor might seem safe but with all the corsair raids you would have to move through a very dangerous country.

Doesn't seems like such a good option to me

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:16 am 
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Ah right, I forgot all about how Gondor was in dire need of the ring.
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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:17 pm 
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And because you have to be dramatic. And for tue same reasons why they didn't just hop on some eagles and fly there.

Bringing it too close to Isengard would have been bad.
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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Also, I think that Gandalf knew about the Balrog, even in the book: spending that much time learning that much lore makes it a lot easier to figure out what Durin's Bane was. I think that Tolkein wrote him quietly wanting to have a showdown with the fiery fiend - if it had been available for the War of the Ring, things would have gone much worse for the free peoples.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:24 pm 
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theOneRider wrote:
Also, I think that Gandalf knew about the Balrog, even in the book: spending that much time learning that much lore makes it a lot easier to figure out what Durin's Bane was. I think that Tolkein wrote him quietly wanting to have a showdown with the fiery fiend - if it had been available for the War of the Ring, things would have gone much worse for the free peoples.


You think Gandalf wanted to fight the Balrog?

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:38 am 
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There was some discussion about alternate routes to take the Ring south in Unfinished Tales if I'm not mistaken. Gandalf was always concerned about taking it close to the gap of Rohan and therefore within easy reach of Saruman and so wanted to avoid that direction at all costs. hence his agreement to take the ring through Moria (a major risk in my opinion, what if the Balrog had seized the Ring - imagine the power it would have had!)

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:33 pm 
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General Elessar wrote:

You think Gandalf wanted to fight the Balrog?



I do. Both Galadriel and Celeborn suggest later that Gandalf knew exactly what he was doing and Aragorn realises Gandalf knew he wouldn't reach Lorien. Gandalf had to be sent back the Undying Lands and reborn as the White Wizard, he couldn't succeed as he was, as Gandalf the Gray. The only way for him to become as Saruman should have been was in battle with the Balrog. He knew the Balrog was there, he knew he would meet it and he knew he'd be destroyed physically in the process.

I think Moria was always Gandalf intention, second only to crossing over the mountains and going south was never considered an option. Plus they were being watched in Eregion and there was concern about getting out of the open country as soon as possible. As for using Eagles, well the whole idea was not to draw attention to themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:36 pm 
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If Gandalf wanted to fight the Balrog, why did he first try to go over the mountains?

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:14 pm 
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General Elessar wrote:
If Gandalf wanted to fight the Balrog, why did he first try to go over the mountains?


Because he still wasn't sure of his eventual fate.

I don't mean he actively sought the Balrog, otherwise he would have gone straight to Moria alone after being rescued from Orthanc, but once the company entered Moria I think he realised where it was all leading and accepted that this was the only way to become the White Wizard that Saruman should have been. Bare in mind Saruman had already succumbed at this point so the Valar had no powerful Istari in charge in Endor, they needed Gandalf to be reborn. I've changed my mind that he knew the Balrog was there before he saw it, but he did want and need to fight it.

Remember Aragorn says, '...it is not for the Ring, nor for any of us others that i am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!' Aragorn felt that Gandalf had a destiny that had not yet been fulfilled.

Also when the Balrog appears Gandalf says to himself, 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.' At that moment he recognised what fate had in store for him and why he had come into Moria.

It a bit like the story of Jesus and the resurrection, he knew he had to die to come back stronger, he didn't seek death but he accepted it had to happen. Same with Gandalf I think, Gandalf realised fighting the Balrog would destroy him but make him stronger to fight Saruman and Sauron.

Having said all that I disagree with TheOneRider that Gandalf was simply killing the Balrog to make the war of the ring easier. I don't think the Balrog would have been used by Sauron against Gondor.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:15 am 
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I agree with you there Gandalf knew he had to fight the Balrog in Moria and defeat it so he could become more powerful to take Saruman's place after he discovered he had changed sides. And I don't think the Balrog could get out of Moria or Sauron had any influence over it in any case.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Morgoth's Dad wrote:
General Elessar wrote:
If Gandalf wanted to fight the Balrog, why did he first try to go over the mountains?


Because he still wasn't sure of his eventual fate.

I don't mean he actively sought the Balrog, otherwise he would have gone straight to Moria alone after being rescued from Orthanc, but once the company entered Moria I think he realised where it was all leading and accepted that this was the only way to become the White Wizard that Saruman should have been. Bare in mind Saruman had already succumbed at this point so the Valar had no powerful Istari in charge in Endor, they needed Gandalf to be reborn. I've changed my mind that he knew the Balrog was there before he saw it, but he did want and need to fight it.

Remember Aragorn says, '...it is not for the Ring, nor for any of us others that i am thinking now, but of you, Gandalf. And I say to you: if you pass the doors of Moria, beware!' Aragorn felt that Gandalf had a destiny that had not yet been fulfilled.

Also when the Balrog appears Gandalf says to himself, 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand.' He faltered and leaned heavily on his staff. 'What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.' At that moment he recognised what fate had in store for him and why he had come into Moria.

It a bit like the story of Jesus and the resurrection, he knew he had to die to come back stronger, he didn't seek death but he accepted it had to happen. Same with Gandalf I think, Gandalf realised fighting the Balrog would destroy him but make him stronger to fight Saruman and Sauron.

Having said all that I disagree with TheOneRider that Gandalf was simply killing the Balrog to make the war of the ring easier. I don't think the Balrog would have been used by Sauron against Gondor.


Explained like that, I can understand your point.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:43 am 
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There is a passage in the A Journey in the Dark chapter, just after the failure at Caradhras, when Gandalf suggests going through Moria:

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'It [Moria] is a name of ill omen,' said Boromir. 'Nor do I see the need to go there. If we cannot cross the mountains, let us journey southwards, until we come to the Gap of Rohan, where men are friendly to my people, taking the road I followed on my way hither. Or we might pass by and cross the Isen into Langstrand and Lebennin, and so come to Gondor from the regions nigh to the sea.'
'Things have changed since you came north, Boromir,' answered Gandalf. 'Did you not hear what I told you of Saruman? With him I may have business of my own ere all is over. But the Ring must not come near Isengard, if that can by any means be prevented. The Gap of Rohan is closed to us while we go with the Bearer.'
'As for the longer road: we cannot afford the time. We might spend a year in such a journey, and we should pass through many lands that are empty and harbourless. Yet they would not be safe. The watchful eyes of both Saruman and of the Enemy are on them. When you came north, Boromir, you were in the Enemy's eyes only one stray wanderer from the South and a matter of small concern to him: his mind was busy with the pursuit of the Ring. But you return now as a member of the Ring's Company, and you are in peril as long as you remain with us. The danger will increase with every league that we go south under the naked sky.'
'Since our open attempt on the mountain-pass our plight has become more desperate, I fear. I see now little hope, if we do not soon vanish from sight for a while, and cover our trail. Therefore I advise that we should go neither over the mountains, nor round them, but under them. That is a road at any rate that the Enemy will least expect us to take.'


It's all there, really. Having declared their position through Gandalf's magic use on Caradhras, they were now directly tracked and would have had no way of shaking the pursuit on the countless dangerous miles between the slopes of Caradhras and the next safe harbour. Plenty of room to be ambushed!

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:50 am 
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Sticky Fingersss wrote:
Just thinking about it, if it was too dangerous to go through the gap of Rohan, Moria, Caradras or the Northern wastes, why not head south and travel through perfectly safe lands? It would take a bit longer but it would certainly have been easier.


I think it was because Gandalf wanted Aragorn to get to Minas Tirith before it was attacked by Mordor. He was the rightful King and the only one who could save Gondor, and the Ring needed to be destroyed ASAP before Sauron could launch continuous attacks against Gondor which was not very powerful at the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Drazmar wrote:
why they didn't just hop on some eagles and fly there.


Makes me laugh... guess if they used eagles Tolkien Enterprises wouldn't be worth much ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Why didn't the Fellowship go south of the white mountain
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:46 am 
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Funny about that.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU :-D

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