Hello everyone! This is my first day on the site as a member, though I've read through many of the posts here before.

I collect a Rohan force, and particularly like playing all-mounted armies (they're just plain fun). First of all, does anyone have any tips or experiences with good all-mounted army lists?
My two opponents play Isenguard and Dwarves, so I have come to especially love the Sons of Eorl (F4 S4 and 2A really helps against Uruks). However, they are quite expensive. I am currently building for 700 points.
My Dwarf Opponent usually goes for elite armies with fewer units, while the Isenguard player (my sister) likes a pike block supported by any combination of crossbows, trolls, beserkers, and/or Saruman and Grima.

Here are a few lists I have come up with. Any tips and help would be appreciated.

List 1:
Eomer, Marshall of the Riddermark (shield, horse) 90pts
Erkenbrand (horse) 75pts
Theodred (horse) 80pts
6 Sons of Eorl 132pts
24 Riders of Rohan (5 with throwing spear, 10 using bows) 322pts

699 points, 33 models, 10 bows, 9 might
This force lacks any big heroes or anything that could take down a troll easily. This was a slight problem in my last game (she experimentally tried out 2 Isengard trolls, Saruman, and Grima with some Uruks). I actually won though, as I had 4 more models. I kept charging with heroic moves every time I could and slowly whittled down the small group of Uruks before surrounding one of the trolls. However, my heroes really didn't help too much against the trolls as Sons of Eorl have the same number of attacks and Fight4/5 both lose to a Fight 8 troll. Also, I took heavy casualties (to be expected, I suppose, against Isengard). My heroes didn't fair much better either, Theodred taking a wound from crossbows and Eomer getting smashed by a troll. Luckily, Saruman sorcerous blasted Erkenbrand into Grima, killing Grima. I like that this force has more numbers than some of my other all-mounted armies, and it has 9 might points spread throughout 3 heroes, but it lacks a single strong model (besides the Sons of Eorl, who can get killed all-to-easily by S4 Uruks).


List 2:
Gandalf the White (Shadowfax) 235pts
Erkenbrand (horse) 75pts
7 Sons of Eorl 154pts
18 Riders of Rohan (1 TS, 8 using bows)

700 points, 27 models, 8 bows, 6 might
I haven't tried this out yet, but I wanted to try Gandalf and Gandalf the Grey didn't seem to fit very well theme-wise. This can represent the relief force Gandalf leads to Helm's Deep (as portrayed in the book with Erkenbrand, though I believe those were mostly foot soldiers...). I figure that Gandalf can help to nullify those big threats (trolls and strong heroes) that I encountered last game, and a handy sorcerous blast down the line of pikes could be very useful. I also like the large group of Sons of Eorl; these guys really do damage to Uruks. However, I have only one unit above defense 6 with only 27 models, and so will not last long if I don't do a ton of damage first.


List 3:
Eomer, Knight of the Pelennor (armored horse) 130pts
Erkenbrand (horse) 75pts
Eowyn (horse, shield) 41pts
10 Sons of Eorl 220pts
18 Riders of Rohan (9 using bows) 234pts

700 points, 31 models, 9 bows, 8 might
This looks like a fairly good list, as it has a strong 3A 3W 3M 3F hero, 8 might points, and a whopping 10 Sons of Eorl (woohoo!). However, Eowyn with defense 4 is a bit of a risk for her big brother. Though I guess he would still cause quite a bit of damage and not go down [i]too[i] easily with all those fate points if he does go crazy.


What do you guys think? Have you seen any similar lists or anything much better? Has anyone had any experience playing with or against armies with Sons of Eorl? I have had quite a hard time finding information on tactics and ideas for them.

Thanks!


EDIT: I fixed the bows.

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God bless you!

Forth Eorlingas!

I'm not an expert on Rohan but I think you generally have to few people in your army. Also, you seem to have misinterpated the bow limit. It's 33% of the warriors (heroes not inclded). Also, I wouldn't advise using Eowyn with Eomer, trade her for more numbers.

It looks like you all play with lots of heroes and/or monsters, so maybe your lists could work under that context, but as Horde Lord noted, most people would say it's too few, with too much spent on heroes. Consider that at 500 points the model limit is 50, and between 501 and 1000 it's 75...any "normal" army will be able to equal or beat the number of dice in every fight, regardless of whether you charge. So you might want to reduce the number of heroes and boost your numbers.

I do recall some all-mounted tactical posts in the Tactics forum, but you might have to dig back a few years.

List 2 is probably my favourite, if the dwarf player is often fielding heroes like dain or other nigh-unkillable dwarves gandalf is bound to be useful, and he can break sarumans staff if need be . Erkenbrand is a pretty solid hero if you make sure you get the charge on the enemy (like most rohan heroes )

I like list 2 as well because you have gandalf, however this is a list i nicked off BM from TLA and could be an alternative (though its not rohan):
Gandalf on Shadowfax
Twins on Horses with Armour
Imrahil on Horse with Lance
10 Knights of DA with Lances

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http://noddwyr.wordpress.com

Welcome to the One Ring!

I agree with Noddwyr and SuicidalMarsbar--List 2 is my favorite as well. However, I would take Gandalf the Grey instead of Gandalf the White. Although the White Wizard can break Saruman's staff, overall "the Grey Pilgrim" is a better deal for his points (in my opinion). Perhaps not quite as themed as Gandalf the White, but it's worth noting that the Grey Pilgrim was active in Rohan before the War of the Ring so thematically it should work out. He'll be able to disrupt the Uruk pike block with Sorcerous Blasts, neutralize the trolls, and his Blinding Light will keep your Riders on their horses on their way into combat.

In general I agree with whafrog and the Horde Lord, but if your main opponents field small, elite armies I don't think your numbers are a problem. You might want to tweak the list if you were going to play more competitively at a tournament or something though.

What about something like this?

Gandalf the Grey (horse) - 180
Eomer (horse, shield) - 90
Eowyn (horse, shield) - 41
6 Sons of Eorl - 132
14 Riders of Rohan (8 firing bows) - 182
5 Riders of Rohan (throwing spears) - 75

700 points
28 models
8 Might

It's not ideal, but for a friendly game against a fairly small force it should do pretty well. Used well, Gandalf can take care of a lot of your problems (although having a cav army get blasted by Saruman's Sorcerous Blast is no fun... nothing you can do about that though).

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"Not all those who wander are lost"

"With hope in our hearts, and wings on our heels" - Chariots of Fire

I noticed a lot of people commenting on how small the army is in all three lists (they are small for 700pts), however with a highly maneuverable army like these ones it can work. With small highly maneuverable armies, just keep moving so you're only ever facing part of the enemy army. This can be through feinting, hit-and-run attacks and forcing their troops to chase you through or around terrain.

I like your first and second lists, but I give my vote to list one. With light cavalry like Riders of Rohan, bows go a long way in whittling down the enemy before you sweep them away with a charge. Against dwarves, the bows won't be as useful but considering you can still out-run them AND shoot, it's a nice deal. Against Uruks.... well firing arrows and running circles around them beats charging headlong into them. I learnt that the hard way.

As Gildor Inglorion said, Gandalf was known to frequently aid Rohan (as was Aragorn) both as the Grey Wizard and the White.

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http://knightscharge.wordpress.com/
- My miniature gaming blog, sorry for lack of LOTR content right now.

Thanks everyone. Yes, I have been misreading the bow limit. I fixed it up above.
For the small model count, usually none of us come close to the limit anyways, partly because we don't have enough models.

However, has anyone seen any competitive all-mounted tournament armies? Do those even exist? If so, how many models do they have?
And are tournaments 600pts standard in the UK and 700 in America?

Has anyone used Great Eagles? I don't believe they get cavalry bonuses, but Gandalf on Shadowfax, Sons of Eorl, and an eagle would be a pretty neat hit-force (all 12-inch movement).

Thanks

_________________
God bless you!

Forth Eorlingas!

The standard size in the UK is 700 points. A lot of local tournaments in the US (at least where I live) are 500 pts, but I believe the bigger tournaments are 600 (still hoping to get to one sometime...).

Competitively I'm not so sure about all-mounted armies... especially Rohan. Although others might say otherwise, I would suggest that Rohan is one of the weakest armies in SBG right now (because it hasn't had an update in forever while the other factions have been getting new models and being affected by stat-creep. ahem.. Mordor/Harad). However, if you like the models and the theme, then go for it! If you wanted you could always add in some models on foot to boost your numbers, but that might ruin your theme.


I'm sure there are some, but the only ones I've ever heard of are all-mounted heroes only. BlackMist's list (I think it was only hypothetical) that Noddwyr posted would be interesting to play though.

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"Not all those who wander are lost"

"With hope in our hearts, and wings on our heels" - Chariots of Fire

Here's a link to another site where someone worked on an evil all-mounted list:

http://www.thelastalliance.com/viewtopi ... =30&t=3474

Personally, I like list 3 the most except that you're using eomer knight who is not worth his points. In list 2, Gandalf the white takes up over a third of all your points so I would either take Gandalf the grey, or drop him all together. I would drop Eomer knight for normal Eomer in the third list and perhaps get some more bodies on the field. Perhaps some outriders as you need some more shots and they don't count towards the 33% limit.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

I've revised it a little. How about this (though I'm not too sure what the theme would be...)?

Gandalf the Grey (Shadowfax) 185
Erkenbrand (horse) 75
Eowyn (horse, shield) 41
7 Sons of Eorl 154
13 Riders of Rohan (6 using bows) 169
5 Outriders (horse) 75

699 points, 28 models, 11 bows, 8 might
Still has Gandalf, 8 might, 7 Sons of Eorl, and now 11 bows but 5 D4 troops (with a fate point each...)


Or
Gandalf the Grey (Shadowfax) 185
Erkenbrand (horse) 75
Eowyn (horse, shield) 41
6 Sons of Eorl 132
17 Riders of Rohan (7 using bows) 221
3 Outriders (horse) 45

699 points, 29 models, 10 bows, 8 might
Gandalf, 8 might, 6 SoE, 10 bows, but one more model and more at D5


Which do you guys think would be more effective? Or is there something else I should change? Sons of Eorl are very useful against D6 Uruks and Dwarves, and bows are useful too. The Outriders are a little bit squishy with only D4. Uruks wound them on a 4+, so they would be more limited in their ability to help out the melee vs the normal riders who take a 5+.

Do you think Eowyn is necessary here? If I drop her, I could get up to the 30s for in model count.

Thanks


EDIT: Fixed bows.

_________________
God bless you!

Forth Eorlingas!

You're still off with the bow count. First army can't have more than 6 riders with bows, because you only have 20 Warriors...(outriders are not warriors, because they have a fate point...a rule that has led to all kinds of abuse...)

Your revisions are looking more competitive. Gandalf the Gray really is a good option in a list of 500+. As I mentioned elsewhere I have never played Gandalf the White since I don't believe he's worth the extra points. I can get a lot more mileage out of a cheap hero and some more troops, or just more troops, for the extra points.

In SBG an all mounted Rohan force is going to be very hard to get right for reasons mentioned above and that you are already encountering. Your numbers will be smaller, you are only effective on the charge and, perhaps the biggest disappointment, Rohan hasn't had an update since the core rules revision while many other armies have had an influx of newer models and due to the stat creep that brought Rohan is one of the "weaker" model lists in the game. But they ARE playable. One of our best tacticians kept trying out his Rohan army with mixed results. He generally found for competative play a reasonable core of foot troops, usually armed with Throwing Spears and shields, helped provide support and securing objectives while the bulk of his force, mounted, had all the bows, often had Throwing Spears and maximized their mobility.

The key to playing an all mounted (or mostly mounted) force comes down to one word...patience. You have to be in no hurry to engage until you are READY to engage. Use your mobility to keep enemy troops between you and those crossbows, forcing an In The Way roll if they want to shoot at you. Stay outside of charge (and possibly spell) range and pick away at them with your bows. Even taking out a couple models per turn is going to start wearing them down. Zip around or split up in such a way as you can force your enemy to split up their infantry, then use your speed advantage to get back together and concentrate on one area for a turn or two while they try to pull the infantry back together...and then back up and do it again. You may find you only get one good combat in every 3-5 turns. Don't worry about this and in fact enjoy that it may be frustrating your infantry-focused opponent as they run their army back and forth across the field.

On a turn where you had Priority, there is a very good chance that your opponent will have Priority next turn (random roll of course but they get the tie). Try to set up so that when they move you can then charge in on them in force. NEVER send in a small group of models. When you do charge it needs to be with commitment. Look for a chance to put multiple cav on a single enemy and call Heroic Combat. You will likely win and can then send 2-3 (or even 4 if you were lucky) cav on to charge other models. This can be a great way to break a line and maybe get a charge in on Saruman behind his Uruk support.

Might on Heroic Combat and Heroic Move (to get the heck out of range if Priority goes against you) are critical. So generic Rohan captains, or Eowyn if you do not have Eomer, are helpful.

A few other suggestions:

Eomer (original version) is a great investment in points and provides a lot of bang for the buck. Erkenbrand is very good as well, and if you can luck into a couple "free Might" rolls then he can prove out to be the best. But I don't have the best of luck with random dice and prefer a given stat line and trust to my in-game decisions.

In SBG Theoden is not a very good investment, which really disappointed me (they corrected this in WotR). His son is a little better, but still not great with no Fate, IIRC. But I believe Theodred does have good stats otherwise and was relatively affordable.

If you want to throw a good one at your opponent some time, take Theodred but say he's a young Theoden and then put Aragorn in there as well. Have the force represent the time when Theoden "was a boy" and Aragorn came to the aid of Thengel. You can ally some Rangers if you want as well. But just having Aragorn mounted in the force (and that free Might he brings with him) will really give you a nice tactical punch.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Lots of great points there. One small quibble:



You're thinking of Eorl. Erkenbrand has a special rule with a horn.

Yeah. That's what I typed...Eorl. I have no idea why it didn't come thru correctly. Must be a memory leak in php...probably related to Y2K. Yeah. I'm sure that's it.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Yes, Eorl is a very good deal, but he really limits allying options.

And your right about the bows again. I'll fix that.

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God bless you!

Forth Eorlingas!

I haven't looked at LoME for the Sons of Eorl list as I don't have much personal interest in playing that time period for now, but I'm sure it does limit the allies. That's one of the things I really liked about LoME...for the most part it did a good job bringing valid Tolkien themes to armies. Still a few frustrations and oddities but it got things mostly on the mark. You were mentioning that you were using Sons of Eorl anyway and I thought they were only part of his list. I may have that wrong (I have a lot of LoME pages scanned to keep with me but never got around to doing Rohan).

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

The Sons of Eorl aren't his actual "sons", like Navy Seals aren't actually "seals" They can be part of any Rohan list.

Rohan would be looking a lot like some of those Appalachian towns with only 32 teeth between them all and a guy with a banjo serenading a goat if he had that many direct relatives.

I was thinking however that they represented the early people only. My bad.

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com