1. NO ONE IS MAKING YOU BUY ANYTHING! IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE PRICES, DON'T BUY ANYTHING!!!!!
2. Ford makes the Mustang, not Chevy. If you're going to make an analogy, get it right.
3. The whole story was about the heros to begin with. Gimli and Legolas killed 40+ Uruk-hai each at Helms Deep. Only the other heros could come close to that. I think GW is actually making the game more like the book and the movies by changing to this.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Whaaaaat?! A company talks up their products?! It's like advertising was some sort of bending of the truth!



Just saying, the price hike happened before the re-boxing. Just saying. Also, they took all the scattered rules and put them in one book; that's the main rules. The new books are closer to Army Books in the other two lines than anything else. But, they seriously condensed the number of books from, like, at least 10 to 5, for less money. That, sir, is a price drop.

It's like you don't even know what you're yelling about!



False analogy fallacy.



You realize that GW still prices themselves equal to their competitors, and that LotR models are some of the cheapest on the market? No? Well, that's unsurprising.



No you don't.



Gosh, changing your style of play? Gosh, that's just terrible!

Last time I saw the price for a 24-model plastic box, they were $39.50 Cdn. Now it's $26.75 for 12 models, which is a $14 increase by anyone's reckoning. The fact that GW try and play it off as a good thing and a price drop is just cheeky and asinine.



From what I've heard, all of these books share the same first 15 pages. Add to this the fact that you still need the main rulebook to play the game (which we admittedly all had, but for new players it's still rough) and all the lost hobby and background material and these books are not exactly a bargain. Also, bear in mind that for Warhamer and 40K you need one Army Book or Codex unless you want to play a second army. LoTR has an active interest in allying, so to get the full experience most people will require at least 2, if not all 5, new books. Instead of one $85 book, you need it and 5 $30 books as well.



Hmm? Give me some comparisons with other lines. Wargames Factory and Foundry miniatures, to name but two, are cheaper for a comparable product. Which "competition" do you speak of?



How do you know what's in his army? Either way, several small flaws with Rohan have bugged me since the inception of the game.



Now this I'll agree with, if not the tone in which you're saying it. The new rules are actually fun if that's all you're playing for. Sorry if your old 49 model Moria army isn't viable at 250pts anymore, but I like the flavour of the warband rule and so does my small play group. If you don't and you're not planning on attending games day then nothing's stopping you from using LoMe as a guideline.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Hey, welcome to marketing 101. People will lie to your face if it gets your to buy something, in all aspects in the market. So, I don't think I mind that GW has just another marketing scheme. But then again, I don't think I've seen GW play it off as a positive.

Then again, it is only a 50 cent increase per model. At $2.22, they are still some of the cheapest liesenced models on the market.



While I agree they are the best baragin, they do condence a lot of the rulebooks into a format that is a lot easier to aquire. I mean, I had no idea where to go for Stormcaller, Sons of Eorl, or the new Aragon rules last month, but these new books have them.

Like while I disagree that people will need "at least two". Looking through the Moria/Angmar and the Kingdoms of Men books, there a lot that you can do in each of them. They have at least 3-5 armies alone in those, and lots of interesting was you can do things. I'm not sure that more than one book will be needed, unless you want to play some scenarios and such.



Mauflaux, Warmahordes, Infinity. Probably the biggest competition that GW has right now. All of them, while needs less models per-army, sell for the same averages that GW does for thier Fantasy and 40k lines; $5 per infantry.



It's not that I know what's in his army, but I know the hobby. I mean, metal models are still all over the place, and you can essential convert any model in the Rohan line (outside characters) with the basic boxed sets. And considering you might need 3 heroes for a regular game? I don't think he even needs to buy anywhere near the amount he implies.



Now this I'll agree with, if not the tone in which you're saying it. The new rules are actually fun if that's all you're playing for. Sorry if your old 49 model Moria army isn't viable at 250pts anymore, but I like the flavour of the warband rule and so does my small play group. If you don't and you're not planning on attending games day then nothing's stopping you from using LoMe as a guideline.[/quote]

Yeah, I think this is a positive move for the game. From what I know of the LoMe games, they are very grindy and not very dynamic at all. I think all this extra might for Heroic actions changes that.

For the Rohan force, you just need Erkenbrand, Eomer and a metal Theoden from Amazon or Ebay. That'll take care of most any good sized Rohan force.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

To be honest I wish I hadn't mentioned my army since my point is getting lost. The posters trying to argue with me about the price hikes, I'm not going to waste mytime in responding to you, I've said what I choose to on price.

It's a shame, I went from having great games, to not playing. because My army of 36 riders and 48 warriors only has two hero's to lead them.

That said, It's a shame that from now on good Rohan lists are going to start with erkenbrand, grimbald, and gamling. There's really no variation if you want the best. Since I own none of those hero's I'm not interested in investing $50-60 on top of the $25 I spent on my "new" book.

Basicly Gw was just acting like themselves. Jerks. It's about what they can get from us, not what they can give. Once the company wanted to make games people wanted to play, now every decision is about what they can take from us before we get too fed up. Oh well, I guess I'm going back to Warmachine where I'll never have an army invalidated on me.

The whole reason I got back into LOTR is because of the reasonable restrictions Lome placed on the game.

I'm not going back to Aragorn vs everyone, with whatever stupid combinations people come up with like elven archers dwarven warriors and Gondor hero's.

I am bitterly disapointed.

Me too But take heart. This is some kind of desperate stopgap until the Hobbit release.
Take a break with Warmachine or Flames of War. Look back in in a few months.

Warbands
price hikes, inflation,the evils of capitalism are really off topic and I agree not to go on about any of them here.
I am still reading through all of the books. I have discovered several issues for me. I do not think some of the scenarios are well done. I have not made my mind up. I don't play in GW shops so in the end it won't matter much. Some power games won't like the game style other power gamers will. GW can not force you to buy more models GW does not make profiles for models they don't make.

You are right, then economically there will be no need to make any new models.So they won't.No new models and no new profiles will be the end result. Or some one will create an uber profile to make the old models obsolete.

_________________
"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Surely you have the option of still playing under the old rules if that's what you prefer, so you aren't forced to stop having great games. And maybe it's just me but endless numbers of nameless faceless warriors sounds very boring. I like the warbands system personally but if they went back to LoME rules it wouldn't stop me having games with friends under whatever rules we prefer.
As someone still pretty new i have to say the new books make things a hell of a lot easier, it was very hard to find rules for figures like floi stonehand otherwise that weren't in the rulebook.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter, unless someone makes a reply to anything I said.


Can't you just convert a few Captains from the riders or Warriors? Chances are you're not going to need all those warriors, or just go on ebay for cheap heroes.


I agree with you here, but for me it won't really affect me, I nearly always used to include Erkenbrand in my Rohan army. Now he's become more competitive, I almost don't want to include him in my army


It's what everyone should expect from GW by now. When I first started playing, a box of 24 was £12, now a box of 12 is £13.50 - 2.25 times what they were when I started, it's just a way for them to make more money. If you leave, GW aren't going to care, they can just increase the prices again (see below).

This is all hypothetical:
GW has two options (simplified down), they can please all their customers, lower profits, or they can please the majority, more profits, but lose some customers:
Option a) a box of 24 costs £6 to make (I have no idea really, just an example) and they charge £12, they make £6 profit is someone buys 1 box.
Option b) a box of 12 costs £3 to make (no idea again), and they charge £12, they make £9 profit if someone buys 1 box.
If they had 10 customers for option a, then they make £60 profit.
If they had 8 customers for option b, then they make £72 profit.
Option c) due to inflation it then cost £4 to to make a box of 12, GW put their prices up (as they should), they think about putting them up to £14, a weird number, so make it £15 instead. They lose another customer:
7 customers paying £15 = £77 profit.


Then continue using LoME - nobody is stopping you from using it, unless you play at a tournament. Have you played the new system? If not, then how can you say you dislike the new system? Give it a try, with proxies if you want, (you don't need the book to try it out) and see if you dislike it or not. I didn't like the idea of it to start with, but then I played a game and really enjoyed it.


Effectively you become a longer term Joe Bloggs (who spent £200 beginning only to find out he didn't enjoy the) to GW, as you've probably spent/been given £100-£400 (estimate) a year on GW products.

I apologise if it seems like I'm having a go at you, I'm not really, just trying to put my opinion out there. I too am bitterly disappointed with GW, although I could stop buying from them, I won't because I enjoy the hobby. If GW were to give a fortnight or months notice before they put the prices up, they could make more money, as people who don't want to buy "overpriced" models will go out and spend as much as they can before the price increase, giving GW more money from people who are going to leave the hobby. They could even lower the prices (or give discounts) on new releases so that it brings more people in for the short term, and hopefully, as people have larger armies anyway, can keep people in for the long term.
I personally will be buying less from the other GW ranges, the only armies I will be buying for are Chaos Daemons (as I use them in both systems, so effectively I'm getting a 50% discount), and some of the Space Marine stuff. My other 6 armies will pretty much be neglected, so GW has lost my money for those systems, and as I mainly want metals from the LotR range, GW has almost lost me completely, although I have enough models in my backlog (about 1000 warriors, not including heroes) to keep me going for a while.
At least with the new books this way, GW can update one army at a time (like 40K/Warhammer) and only re-release one book at a time, keeping the customers happy(ish).

With regards to the original post:

LoME games can still be played, although not at the GT.
Good has the advantage of 4(?) cheap heroes (Eowyn, Damrod, Beregond, Denethor (I only have 2 of the new books so far)) (not including Hobbits), but their warriors and other heroes are more expensive (again, not including Hobbits), so this sort of makes up for it.
Most of the upgrades do seem rather pointless though, especially the Hearthguard/Iron Hills Veterans - Just take Khazad/Iron Guard (again, I only have the Free Peoples & Moria and Angmar).

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C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/

No wonder Rohan is always in the pits, our players ditch competative options

I had my doubts too (I have plenty of earlier posts on it), but so far the games I've played have been very enjoyable, not at all the "Aragorn vs everyone" you're describing. There are a few things I like about the war band system. First, armies are easier to create on the fly. There is a lot less time spent fiddling with this or that set of equipment. You just grab a hero + 12 and you're done. What we've found is it's easier to decide on a rough point level, build one army, then build the opponent to match.
Second, I get to use heroes I rarely did before. This one is odd for me, since I disliked uber-heroes with LoME, mostly because you had to field a huge army just to get enough numbers to complement them. So I was always playing with mid-level heroes (Rumil, Erkenbrand, etc) in 500-700 points, and the big stuff gathered dust. But the war bands allows you to balance that out better and take a nice mix. Suddenly heroes like Imrahil and Galadriel or Celeborn are viable.
Third, games are quicker for the same points, mostly because the model count is lower, but also because there is a bit more Might floating around for heroic combats, and what not.

All these things I'm describing might sound like big changes, but in fact they aren't. The effect is more subtle than I'm describing, and I was pleasantly surprised. Really, you should give it a try before you decide.

It is true LoME prevented stupid alliances like Aragorn + Elendil, but if you're playing with friends surely you can make your own house rules about that.

As for which heroes you're using and not wanting to buy more, if you're playing with friends why can't you proxy?

One more thing you need to take into account: taxes and the cost of the material. Depending on certain factors, the price of the plastic might rise without being affected by inflation. Taxes are the bane of capitalism, when taxes go up, so do prices in order to keep the same level of profits. I don't know if taxes have gone up a significant amount in the last 10 years, but it's still worth considering.

_________________
"Leave Sauron to me."
If you're in the Raleigh, NC area, let me know.

Well, thanks everyone for the replies and encouragment. Sorry to derail the thread like I did, it wasn't my intention. I've decided to head down to the shop and get some games in tonight trying out the warbands rules. I'll give it a fair chance and then respond back here with what I think. It should be interesting because previously the SBG was my favorite of all games, and I've been gaming for 15 years.

they never tried to play it off as a good thing. the reason they repacakged it was to fall into the line of having warbands. and to be honest i'd rather buy 12 new models than 24 and it allows them to make more elites plastic. the price rise didnt come because of the repackaging, it came because of GW raises the prices every now and again.

When I said GW are playing it off as a good thing, I meant this: , which to me reads more like them trying to make customers see the silver lining in "This month we've reconfigured several of our plastic box sets to make it even easier to bugger you."

In any event, it IS all down to marketing certainly. On that note however, I don't see myself buying any plastics directly from GW in future. If I can find sets of 24 for around $30 I still may pick them up, but otherwise the value for money is far less than I deem worthy. They did this with the Warhammer and 40K sets a couple years back, cutting everything (except Space Marines and Chaos Warriors) from 16-20 for $42 to 10 for $29.50.

As for the books, I would still much prefer a new edition of the main rulebook encompassing everything the current one has in it, as well as the stuff from the new sourcebooks. Even if GW charged $120 for it, we'd still save money over buying all 5 sourcebooks. On the topic of getting all 5, I'd wager there are more people on the board who would need 2 or more to cover all the minis they own than there are people who could put anything from their collection on the table with just one book. Calling 5 books "more convenient" is accurate, but only because GW made it maddeningly difficult to find the SBG profiles for models released during the "WoTR era."

Regardless, I do enjoy the game and I do enjoy the new rules. My friends and I will continue to play the game with what we have using older rulebooks. We'll probably adapt the warbands rule to it as well.

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Most of you are not actually discussing the Warbands at all.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

You can still buy 24 Morannon orcs on giftsforgeeks! Only 16.90! All other 24 piece boxes look to be out of stock

_________________
All Hail The Lord of Light, R'hllor, for the night is dark and full of terrors!

I really enjoy Warbands games, though I guess I usually played in this way anyway, in that I usually had a group of models "led" by a hero. Now though, I find myself taking bigger heroes, and seeing genuine payoffs for doing so. I'm finding that numbers, whilst important, do not need to be as high as before, I can get away with a 33 model army with Dwarves at the 600pt mark, and not really suffer for it.