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 Post subject: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:17 pm 
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Over on Warseer, I frequently stumble across topics where players evaluate armies unit by unit, pointing out strengths, weaknesses and tactics. I've found them to be very helpful, so I thought I might start a thread over here where people can do the same. Others can, of course, feel free to comment on evaluations or add their own.

I'll start off with Isengard, marking each unit with 1-10 (THESE MARKINGS ARE BY NO MEANS DEFINITIVE, but express my personal evaluation. I will change them if someone can give good arguments for a change):

Uruk Phalanx: The only real reason to take this unit is it's looks (six coys with banner and Saruman looks really epic). D5 means that they are quite squishy, while at 35 points they're just beyond the point where you can accept that. They are only better then Uruks with shields in one specific case: when cavalry charge them from the front, but if anyone ever does that, he's killed his cavalry anyway, pikes or no pikes. In short, far less effective then Uruks with shields for the same price. My mark: 5

Uruk-Hai Warband with Shields: Your basic line infantry. Take either one unit of 6 coys or two of 4 to act as a reliable base for the rest of your army to revolve around. They are almost impervious to shooting (requiring a 6/4, IRC), and really dish out the pain in close combat. The only problem is Morannon Orcs do exactly the same for 10 points less. Good, but not great. A 7.5

Uruk-Hai Warband with Crossbows: A lovely shooting unit. Take three/four companies with Saruman, and watch enemy formations fade to dust. However, they are just as vulnerable in close combat as Pikemen. A second disadvantage is that they require precious might to shoot and move in one turn, making it relatively easy to avoid them behind terrain etc. I'd take one unit, but not more, unless you do an Isengard Gunline (Saruman, Ballista's/Siegebows and Crossbowmen). I'm not sure, 7.5/8.

Isengard Orcs: Orcs are orcs. They are cheap as chips, and with twohanded weapons can dish out the pain big time. The only problem is that they'll die a painful and horrible death in return. These are best in a big squad without any command, nice and cheap, so their eventual death doesn't hurt too much. Then they are a nice card to have at hand. Mark: 7

Edit: Uruk-Hai Scouts: without anything, a nice, though expensive screen for Berserkers or Troll chieftain, mainly because of the little bit of extra speed. Shields make them a useful flanking unit, but them on the side of your army, and flank charge the formation your Warriors are attacking from the front. With bows, a less hard hitting, but far faster alternative to Uruk-Hai Crossbows. Either way, there are better units (Orcs, Cavalry, Ruffians respectively). A 6.

Uruk-Hai Sappers: One of those units that is great fun to use, even if they don't work. You have 50% chance they kill half the enemy army, and 50% they kill half your army. Tricks to influence the gods of fortune would be: keep them well away form enemy archers while they're close to your lines, don't allow them within 6-7" of your key units, and you can always use Saruman to blow them up. Maybe use Thrydan to call heroic move, spurt out and blow them up. For fun, these should be brilliant (unless you hate having bad luck :wink: ), purely mathematical around a 6.

Ferals: S5, Berserk warriors appearing suddenly behind my lines? Shudder at the thought alone! Just make sure there are at least 2 points they can come out of, or don't ambush at all, but use them as a heavy hitting unit, along the lines of Berserkers or 2HW orcs. Overall, a very useful and versatile unit, an 8.

Berserkers: These are painful. Seriously painful. S6, Berserk, D6 charge bonus and a high fight result in a lot of dead enemy if used properly, but mind! Even though they're R2 Indomitable, there's only eight of them, and you want as many as possible to reach the enemy. Plus, they're quite an eye-catcher, so the chance your enemy will take them for a minor threat is nihil as well. These need to be hid behind someone else to be effective, but hey, didn't we have a lot of D7 uruks lying around? Mark: a 2 when used badly (ie me :oops: ), an 8.5 when used well.

Dunlending Warriors: With 2HW these can provide an extra hard hitting unit for very little points, though as most hard hitting Isengard units they die like flies. With shields they are a very cheap, relatively reliable center unit. If they weren't rare, one could base an army around them. So now all you need is Thrydan's Battlehost. In either form, these form a very useful addition to any army, and are easy to fit in as well. These are around an 8 as well.

Isengard Troll: These are impressive, until you look at special rules. Hard to kill is just too random for my liking, two arrows could end up in 100 wasted points, with 0.125% chances. A nazgul, a large archer block or a big regiment are three more or less certain ways to kill one in a turn or two, and it probably won't earn you its points. For 50 pts extra, take the chief, who is VHTK, has two might (heroic moves/fights) and can ATD to keep up with your army or flank the enemy line. To me, these are 4, though others my like.

More will follow tomorrow.

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Last edited by Telchar on Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:21 pm 
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Do Haradrim or Easterlings!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:44 pm 
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I completely agree with what you just said Telchar!
very nice review

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:09 pm 
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I would rate Ferals above Beserkers. 1 company is too bad.

The sappers are best when Saruman the Overlord is around.

Isengard Troll Captains are superior to lesser Isengard Trolls, and more cost effective than their Mordor cousins.

You forgot Ruffuans, the cheapest archers in the game.

I will provide more feedback when I am not overwhelmed with family problems at home.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:26 pm 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
I would rate Ferals above Beserkers. 1 company is too bad.

The sappers are best when Saruman the Overlord is around.

Isengard Troll Captains are superior to lesser Isengard Trolls, and more cost effective than their Mordor cousins.

You forgot Ruffuans, the cheapest archers in the game.

I will provide more feedback when I am not overwhelmed with family problems at home.

I isn't to bad I hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:43 pm 
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In defense of Berserkers, one can have epic heroes join them. As un-thematic as it is, they do not have We Stand Alone, ergo, Saruman in a Berserker formation, up them with a re-roll, remove enemy defenses, throw in a firebolt for good measure, Saruman leaves, Berserkers charge, viola, instant unpleasant smear on the enemy. IMO though, they tend to be best as intimidation troops more than anything- which is why having two formations can be useful.

Also, I would rate pikemen higher, for the following reasons- yes, you get hammered when in close combat, however, head-on, any enemy is going to get hammered as well, particularly if you use the proper magical spells to enhance the capability of your pikemen. Pikemen are not a place for Lurtz, however, largely because his abilities are best used (imo) in smaller formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Archers would shoot the Beserkers before Saruman left them. Though he doesn't need to enter them to benefit, he has Overlord, and his spells have a range.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Yes, archers would tear them to shreds, unless they were hiding (which mine do). After all, one must find a use for all those other models out there, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:03 pm 
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That reminds me. If there is one formation or hero that you really love, whether it is good or bad, include it, because using it will make you happier, even if you lose, most people would rather lose with an army they like than win with an ramy you don't. Unless your BlackMist of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:06 pm 
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No winning is everything!!!!! Although I still don't know what that feels like lol
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 pm 
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No true LotR fan would say that.

However, I understandyour perspective, and besides, if I play Mordor, my favourite thing in that list is Gothmog so I am pretty lucky in that respect.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:09 am 
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I ALWAYS include Aragorn, by far my favorite character, books > movie version by far...

Its hard justifying it in SBG though... still struggling to balance him in
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:14 am 
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GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
I would rate Ferals above Beserkers. 1 company is too bad.

The sappers are best when Saruman the Overlord is around.

Isengard Troll Captains are superior to lesser Isengard Trolls, and more cost effective than their Mordor cousins.

You forgot Ruffuans, the cheapest archers in the game.

I will provide more feedback when I am not overwhelmed with family problems at home.


Berserkers require a lot of thought to make them work properly, I'll grant you that, but when done well they can be far more destructive.
Very nice trick, I'll remember that. Saruman has so many special rules, I just seem too forget Overlord.
That's what I said.
More's coming.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:32 am 
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Isengard Review continued:

Isengard Troll Chieftain. An Isengard Troll with VHTK (aka doesn't die too randomly) and two might. Hide him behind your Uruk Warriors, ATD him into the enemy flank, (heroic) charge, heroic fight, and that's a nice big splash all over the enemy formation. Especially when aforementioned Uruks charge him to the front. Another option is to send him around your flank to mop up siege weapons ect., but keep him protected from heavy fire, as you want him to reach the end with as little wound counters as possible. The only other thing you should avoid is large blocks of D7 infantry, so long as you don't have support and/or a flank/rear charge. A 7.5.

Warg Riders: Without wargear, these are a very cheap cavalry unit to tie an enemy formation up with for a turn (maybe two). Bows turn them into a light harassment unit (something the cheapo's can do as well, but not as good, as they have a short range), using Skilled Riders to move full distances and then shoot. With shields, one can use them to flank/rear charge an enemy squad attacked to the front, much as detailed in the Isengard Troll Chief entry. Thrydan (or equivalent very cheap hero) really adds something (ATD and heroic charge, to be exact) to them in this function. Either way, they are nice and cheap unit that has its uses, but watch out for archers who will reduce them to ineffective strength (since you won't want more then 3 coys in a formation to start with) very quickly. Mark: 7

Dunlending Horsemen: At first glance, these seem brilliant. "Burning Rick, Cot and Tree" allows you to ignore defence bonuses from all types of terrain! However, stricktly reading, only the Dunlending Horsemen themselves benefit from this rule, and since there are no charge bonuses against Defensible terrain, you're stuck with 2 attacks per company. That makes the rule rather void, but if you can argue that the rule applies to all formations in the fight, charge a few (2-3) companies of them into an enemy in defensible terrain, and get a nice and big Uruk block in on the other side. If not, these are just like Warg Riders, but with different models (converted).

Ruffians: 10pts per company for a bow unit. Take 3-4 small formations, and pepper the enemy with arrows while they have worse things to worry about (4 coys of Ferals, two blocks of Uruks, a Troll chieftain and some Berserkers, for example). When they get into melee, they die. But who cares, they're just 10 pts, and by that time will have shot double their value in enemy. Just remember to fire at lightly armoured troops first, D7 infantry will laugh at you. Mark: 8.5

Isengard Ballista: In principle, this is quite a good unit. Two of them in defensible terrain (where they can turn) provide big problems for heavy infantry and monsters. These are very handy indeed when you want your enemy to come to you, or in combination with massed Crossbows and allied Ruin casters for an Isengard Gunline. The problem is their cost. Firstly, Mordor has 50pts siege bows with just and only one Strength less, which doesn't matter all that much. Secondly, for the price of two, you can have another 4 coys of Uruks with shields, which will probably serve you better. A 6.5

Wildmen of Dunland: S4(5 on the charge) infantry for 15 pts? :D . These are best either hidden behind something, then popping out and splattering an enemy formation in a kamikaze assault, or as a screen for your berserkers (30 pts isn't that much loss when the Berserkers kill off 1.5 coy of enemy), or hidden inside terrain, then suddenly appearing behind the enemy lines and rear charging. All of these work best in very small squads 2-3 companies, but take several, and do them all at once. Another option is to take 4 coys as use them as poor man's Ferals. A solid 8.

All the legendary formations follow a certain theme: you take a unit, add one of the lesser Uruk Heroes, and give them a special rule.

Ugluk's Raiders: These are basically Uruk scouts with a better captain and two very nice special rules. Forward, you maggots! is rather meh, admittedly. If you only lose one Uruk, then it's OK, but you could lose over half a company. Furious charge is very different. A might point to charge an extra 4" and have an extra die per company in the fight phase is well worth it to me. Chances are your enemy will forget about it and place a formation he doesn't want charged just outside your charge range at some moment, only to suddenly see it nearly doubled. Another option is to use it to make a flank attack a turn earlier then expected. Just bear in mind they're only D4 To me, these are just worth 115 pts, even not counting the fact that Ugluk is just plain epic. My mark: 6.5.

Vrashku's Talons: Uruk Crossbowmen with a 3 might captain and a worthless special rule for 95 pts extra. The normal ones are better. Tactics are just as with normal Uruk Crossbows. A 4.5

Sharku's Hunters: Warg Riders with a 3 might Captain, and a very useful special rule for 75 pts and an extra 5 per company. Take shields, put them on the flank of you line and ATD forward, pepper your enemy with throwing spears (Expert Riders), and then flank charge them, calling a heroic fight just for good measure, causing Terror and having Prowlers. Your enemy is not going to like that. Alternatively, use them as a better version of normal Wargs with shields. Quite useful indeed, a 7.5.

Mauhur's Marauders. These are upgraded scouts with shields. Their special rule makes them very destructive, especially when used with a heroic fight and/or flank charge. Fight, kill D6 extra, charge your disordered enemy again, fight and cause another D6 extra casualties. Combined with the fact that Mauhur does the same as Ugluk, just for less points and that these are cheaper then ordinary scouts with shields but as effective (not counting special rules, which are worked into the starting cost), this is probably the best Isengard Legendary. An 8.

Thydan Wolfsbane: Quite simply, a captain with Epic strike where you need him most and an inspiring leader for your Dunlendings. This guy is brilliant, and no Isengard army should leave home without him. Probably the best thing in the whole Isengard list, and often cherrypicked as an ally for others. 8.5

Saruman: Spells of Ruin, C6 Inspiring Leader for everything, Touched by destiny with Epic Ruination make this guy really the linchpin for your army. The problem is your enemy knows that as well, and he is only F4. Conclusion: KEEP HIM AWAY FROM DUELERS. So long as you manage that, this wonderful wizard will destroy half the enemy army singlehandedly. Cast Shatter shields if your target has them, then Exsiccate, then Bolt of Fire, all with Epic Ruination. If the enemy doesn't have shields, move Exsiccate on place forward and put Dark Fury second. It's very hard indeed to fail focus this way. Blessing of the Valar can ruin your opponent's good mood, seeing those berserkers suddenly rise out of the ground again is annoying. Very annoying. Voice of Saruman is a nice boon, and a little help against Duelers, but it'll abandon you when you need it most. In short, this truly is the "walking artillery piece" some have named him, but artillery is vulnerable as well as hard hitting. 8

Lurtz: 4 might is useful, as is Inspiring Leader (C5). Epic Strike means you'll have all wizards run before you, and Epic rage is very funny in conjunction with Ferals or Dunlendings/Orcs with 2HW. Mighty blow is good for monster hunting, and Assassins Shot means that you can sign the death warrant of any troll you want when you have some crossbowmen. However, he is 175 pts, and that is just a little too much. Compare him to Boromir, who is remarkably similar. For the same price, Boromir has two extra might and a very useful epic action (Epic Duel), as well as Epic Sacrifice. Good, but a little overpriced. The problem is that most likely, you won't have much choice. A 6.5

Grima Wormtongue: Reduces enemy courage by 2 (and fight by 1, but none will notice that). What profit does an average Isengard list have from lower courage. That's right: none at all! 75 pts of rubbish. However, he forms a very useful ally for the ghosts of Angmar. A 3 in Isengard, a 7 there.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Loving the review, nice work mate. Can't wait for the other army lists!
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:02 pm 
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Jazlotus wrote:
Loving the review, nice work mate. Can't wait for the other army lists!


I'm not going to do them all! Might do Elves and Dwarves though. Others, feel welcome to add your own ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Telchar wrote:
Jazlotus wrote:
Loving the review, nice work mate. Can't wait for the other army lists!


I'm not going to do them all! Might do Elves and Dwarves though. Others, feel welcome to add your own ideas.

Why are you waiting with them, you should do the elves right now! :P

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:02 pm 
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No do dwarves! Pweeeeese x x x :P
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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:56 pm 
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If you don't do Mordor, Fallen Realms ansd Angmar, I most certainly will.

Ugluks Raiders do actually have shields and are defence 6, if I'm not mistaken, they wrote it wrong in the book. However, I think they (and most every Legendary in Evil) is too small to be good.

As with before I agree mostly with what you say. Though Lurtz cost seems moe reasonable when compared with Amdur who is the same cost but has only a mediocre 3 might. Grima should be in Angmar. I would put Wildmen n 4s and Ferals in 3s. I agree compleetely with your Thrydan analysis, and Saruman.

Thank you for putting the time and enery into this though. Well done, there are Angmar and Elves tacticas, but I don't agree with all he says, especially on the Elf one.

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 Post subject: Re: Evaluating Units
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Regarding the cost of Lurtz, I personally think that he's overpriced. He has his merits, but to best use them requires burning almost all his might in one turn, after which point he's just down to dropping the resiliance of a hero by one per turn. Regarding Amdur, though, Amdur, imo, is wonderful if only because he is the only evil hero to come with Epic Rampage (one would think that more of them came with it, but sadly, no). Yes, he only has three points of might, but if one gets him into the right unit at the right time, it can be brilliant. Could also work well when teamed up with Lurtz.

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